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Vanvanbluz 05/19/2011 4:30:00 AM
This is an interesting discussion. Many people have asked how these illegals obtained the money to pay the coyote fees. I believe it comes from illegal family members already living in the us. This is how they bring all of their family here. Btw in case you are feeling sorry for mexico remember that their GDP growth is 4 times what ours is. Mexico is like china, they want to rob the us of it's wages.
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09/09/2010 3:49:00 AM
Thank you for your comments and I wish that people would look at the positive things that helps the city bring employment to those that want to earn a living, together we can solve our problems,
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SFreader 09/03/2010 8:05:00 PM
This same story appeared in the SFWeekly in San Francisco a couple weeks ago, complete with identical photos and cover art.
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sombrasluz 09/01/2010 4:21:00 AM
Wonderfully indepth piece! Monica, Great job! You have opened a window to a secret, evil world we live within and don't even know about it. Thanks for the peek.
For those of you who read this article, I ask you to pay a bit more attention to what is going on around you. With the insight Monica and her sources revealed, (at great personal risk, I might add!) you maybe able to save someone's life, someone's innocence regardless of their birth country's origin... The signs Monica and Law Enforcement have mentioned in the past relating to smugglers and drop houses have given us enough information to notice when something might not be the way it should. For your fellow species if nothing else, please report it!
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Jerkyskin 08/29/2010 3:24:00 AM
dude, you're retarded. do you live in a cave?
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moroso 08/26/2010 5:42:00 PM
Same as you traveling from southern california to boston,massashusetts police won't stop you unless you breack the rules of the road.
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Jpepackman 08/25/2010 4:01:00 PM
Good story, and lots of good research, but very slanted.
I really feel for the people of the world who live in third-world dumps, but not every one of them can move to America. What I would like Monica Alonzo to add in her story is how do these people show up on our border with that much cash in their pockets to hire a coyote?
If they are scrimping by on $7.80(100 pesos) a day, where do they come up with the money? I don't think the coyotes take credit cards or I.O.U.'s... $1800.00 is alot of money to me, it seems that same cash could go an awful long way in Mexico, in their community.
I would also like to know, how does an immigrant show up in Sonora, get off a bus and have several coyotes offer to excort them into theUnited States. How did this guy get through Mexico? Especially if he is from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, etc.. It seems to me the Mexican government doesn't really enforce their borders, if they allow this guy to travel from Southern Mexico to Northern Mexico without any form of identification, a passport, etc.
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JPDL 08/24/2010 6:40:00 PM
law-abiding illegal aliens WTF does that mean ? how can you be a law abiding and illegal at the same time fucking retarded !!
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Pyra 08/20/2010 7:49:00 AM
How come I never her people like you complain about the illegal Chinese and Eastern Europeans? Look it up, their numbers are vast.
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MaxOnePercent 08/19/2010 7:02:00 PM
There is nothing racist about criticizing IDIOTS that hand thousands of dollars to NOTORIOUS CRIMINALS to assist them in BREAKING THE LAW under the ridiculous assumption that they are going to be treated fairly by the blood-thirsty scumbags when they get to the US. There is no honor among thieves as they say. These people were incredibly stupid to think it was safe to do business with coyotes in the first place.
Furthermore, if these people are so poor and so desperate how is it that they manage to come up with thousands of dollars to pay coyotes to be smuggled into America? I couldn't come up with $1800 to save my life yet we are supposed to buy the BS lie that says these people are all "poor" and desperate to come to the US for work. Yeah right, the only thing they are desperate for is to come here and get on the welfare dole. That is the true driving force behind illegal immigration.
Lastly, it is extremely flawed to compare modern immigrants to the people that came to the United States in centuries past. When my ancestors came over in the 19th century there was no welfare, no public health insurance, no minimum wage, there wasn't even free public education! Our ancestors came here to work or to starve (and many of them did starve btw), unlike modern immigrants who come here to get obese as permanent recipients of public assistance for generations to come.
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MaxOnePercent 08/19/2010 5:33:00 PM
People like you are so pathetic, you are too lazy (or dumb) to make an actually counter-argument so you resort to nitpicking about typos. Get a life.
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MaxOnePercent 08/19/2010 5:29:00 PM
Excellent points. I especially agree with your assessment of the New Times, which is little more than a puppet publication for greedy corporate interests masquerading as "progressive". Bravo!
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MaxOnePercent 08/19/2010 5:25:00 PM
I don't think that adding 12 million less-than-minimum-wage workers will do anything besides completely bankrupt the fragile social safety net that barely exists in this country. Furthermore, even if their meager social security payments were able to buoy the system it won't be anything more than a temporary fix. Don't you realize that these people are already eligible for social security as it is? In the long run they will end up taking more from the system then they put it, just like the current generation of social security recipients has.
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08/19/2010 3:48:00 PM
No gmfbear1, because you have zero credibility on the subject, because you're inferring that civil rights are only a gimmick, to be exploited for agenda, but something that actual citizens, the only ones who have civil rights in the US, can be deprived of. You support the imposition of a status quo like that of the one your grandparents sought to escape.
We have untold millions of US citizens who have been displaced from their jobs, they and their children are the ones suffering. They are homeless, they can't get jobs, because they are being discriminated against because they are US citizens. Let's deal with some truths here. Mexico isn't destitute, these people aren't deprived of jobs, they aren't homeless or hungry, in most cases they are overweight. There is no human right to violating the law because you want to earn a higher wage standard than that which exists in your home country. While wages there are lower than in the US, the cost of living is dramatically cheaper than in the US. What's more, these people have every ability to work hard for change in their respective countries. They aren't seeking a "better life" they are seeking welfare and other subsidies. And this harms US citizens, it makes taxes rise to the point that businesses move overseas, and Mexico, which keeps it's tax rates low by encouraging it's poor to come here, hope it also provides them a competitive advantage that will lure those businesses to relocate there.
The Phoenix New Times likes to infer it has an altruistic agenda, yet it's in bed with the historic enemies of the minimum wage, work place protections, food, drug and product safety provisions and environmental laws, the US Chamber of Commerce and Business Roundtable, who all demand open borders to destroy all the gains made in the previous century that improved the lives of the poor and created a middle class. The Phoenix New Times shares the same plantation slavery mindset as those two organizations.
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Andy 08/19/2010 12:44:00 PM
A great article, thanks.
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08/18/2010 8:25:00 PM
I wish you were a politician.
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ISAACARAGON 08/18/2010 7:29:00 PM
Yea because most spoiled americans don't think that way. They dont know what it is to be american. WE ARE ALL BLESSED TO BE HERE! NO MORE HATE!!
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Ozzylvr 08/18/2010 7:01:00 PM
IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!
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Ozzylvr 08/18/2010 6:59:00 PM
They were doing something illegal thats why their in the situation their in, i dont feel sorry for them. And you go to mexico and help them out the best way you can, AND STAY THERE YOU WONT BE MISSED!!!!
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Ozzylvr 08/18/2010 6:54:00 PM
YES IT DOES MATTER IF THEIR ILLEGAL OR NOT, IF THEY DIDNT TRY TO CROSS ILLEGALLY THIS WOULD'NT HAVE HAPPENED TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, YOU IDIOT!!!!!
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Ozzylvr 08/18/2010 6:49:00 PM
Figures an immigrant would say that!!!!!
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Ron_nesmith 08/18/2010 7:34:00 AM
Did you know that Geronimo spent the last few years of his sad life as a prisoner and put on display as some sort of side-show freak for Wild Bill Hickcock's traveling show? The jokes on you! Geronimo licks ass!!!
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Ron_nesmith 08/18/2010 7:09:00 AM
It doesnt matter if they were here legally or illegally,you and most of every one else posting these comments would still hate Mexicans just the same! At least have the balls and the depth perception to be real about it!
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Ron_nesmith 08/18/2010 6:54:00 AM
Exactly! Once again another case in history where Europeans and their decendants were the ORIGINAL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT INVADERS! You just said it your self!
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Ron_nesmith 08/17/2010 11:40:00 PM
How can you label it as bull-shit ? Is it not a fact that Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner and the author of the Declaration Of Independance? Is it not a fact That Lewis and Clark tress passed through out their expedition? Did you know that the Cherokee nation took it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court and won the right to stay on their land and then president Andrew Jackson just blatantly dissobeyed the Supreme Court and ordered the US Army to march the Cherokee's off their land and seize it? The Cherokees did do it legally and it worked out really well for them didnt it?
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Ron_nesmith 08/17/2010 11:02:00 PM
The truth hurts! Doesnt it ?
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Ron_nesmith 08/17/2010 10:57:00 PM
Your level of reasoning and intellect does not even warrant a response.
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Ron_nesmith 08/17/2010 10:47:00 PM
Then put an Ellis Island down at the border so they can do it as easily and conviently as the Europeans had it in the early 1900s !
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08/17/2010 9:33:00 PM
Alonzo is lying about the legal immigration numbers. In 2008 189,989 Mexicans immigrated legally, not 26,260. You should at least get your numbers correct. http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2008/table03d.xls
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08/17/2010 9:30:00 PM
Obviously we must be, since illegals do not pay taxes. I'd gladly pay more in taxes to build a fence, or a moat, or whatever freaking else to keep people who break the law and enter our country illegally.
/would you let a stranger rent your home? babysit your kids? borrow your car? If you say no, then why the hell would you be FOR letting millions of people cross our borders without a background check? Stupid much?
more than that, if you have a class of 20 kids and 4 are illegal, at $4,000 a head, that's $16,000 in one class alone that AMERICAN TAXPAYERS have to foot the bill for.
And Americans wonder where all of the money is going in taxes, that our states are going bankrupt?
WAKE UP!!!!
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Greg 08/17/2010 9:08:00 PM
Crime spilling over a national border should be seen as not a criminal situation, but an international that should be in the jurisdiction of ambassadors, military, CIA, etc. Nations have the responsibility of maintaining law and order, and if they can't do so, and it spills over into another country, that country should either threaten to, or actually take action to deal with the problem (i.e. military action). Violent crime which spills over is an invasion, plain and simple. I'm not saying we should invade Mexico, not yet, but we should treat these as international incident. We should start by sending an ambassador to Mexico, plan some diplomacy, maybe engage in some saber rattling, and if this continue, mobilize our troops. And mo, I'm not doing an anti-illegal immigration rant. This is not the problem, its the criminal elements who slip back and forth across the borders to elude the authorities on both sides. And when cartel members, or even some of these criminals are caught, maybe they should be tried by a military tribunal (or at least use that threat to gain leverage in such a case).
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Gmfbear1 08/17/2010 7:33:00 PM
I am the grandson of an illegal immigrant that was fleeing the communists in Russia in 1918. My parents are first generation, have college degrees, had 4 kids, all with college degrees, have 12 cousins, one with a PhD in English, 6 School Teachers, 1 Surgeon, a Masters Degree Social Worker, 2 MBA's, and one Rhodes Scholar with a PhD in Arabic working in anti-terrorism. The point I am trying to make is people come to this country from Latin America to better their families. So lets make the process easier, lets make them legal, let them buy houses here and sign up for Social Security. I think adding 12 million new faces to Social Security may fix its finances, don't you think?!?
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Rob 08/17/2010 7:31:00 PM
Well, don't try to cross the border illegally, and this won't happen to you.
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Thinkalittle 08/17/2010 4:52:00 PM
Ron! Wake up and smell what you are shoveling!!! If you let whomever pleases to come over undocumented here and now do you really think all would be well????
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08/17/2010 4:39:00 PM
What's pathetic is that you don't seem to grasp the overall picture, only pick out 1 thing and over-exaggerate it without thinking about what got them there in the first place or the consequences of letting people flood into the country unchecked.
They are in real trouble sure help them out, but they should have to pay for it(fat chance) and should be deported back to where they came from ILLEGALLY in the first place. I bet you would have a different view if they came over with 200lbs of heroin strapped to their backs and got into that situation. Illegal is illegal.
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Alacran 08/17/2010 3:44:00 PM
Learn how to spell. It's spelled "losing", not "loosing".
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Lizlemonrox 08/17/2010 3:07:00 PM
Wow. You want to talk about ignorant? My grandparents came to this country LEGALLY. The problem is that people crossing the border are doing it ILLEGALLY.
It's obvious that you failed basic Civics 101... there is a system for them to come to the country and become citizens. It's been in place for years and years. They just don't want to take the time or be troubled by doing it LEGALLY.
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Lizlemonrox 08/17/2010 3:02:00 PM
@ Karin Yes, it does matter that they were illegal. They should be helped if they are in a situation like the one above... but sent back to their country. If people didn't try to come into the United States ILLEGALLY, they wouldn't run into situations where they are taken advantage of and abused. I wonder how may of the kidnappers were here ILLEGALLY?
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Mateonelson 08/17/2010 2:40:00 PM
I hope the illegals were deported and the kidnappers put in prison, and the house put up for public auction.
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karin 08/17/2010 1:44:00 PM
Wow, so many of you are pathetic... Does it really matter if these victims were illegal? You all are saying, that a piece of paper is going to determine whether or not our law enforcement should help them or not.. First of all, it's on US Territory... Second, someone asked who is going to pay the SWAT team salary for rescuing these people? Well you are, how about that!
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JayRob303 08/17/2010 11:29:00 AM
I have no sympathy for these criminals...regardless of their reasoning to break out laws...call it karma...
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Anavi4u2c 08/17/2010 10:48:00 AM
Hi--so much you say it true. The sad thing in Mexico is, like other quasi socialistic/totalitarian regimes, the system has methodically made sure to keep the people uneducated and oppressed--just enough to take away their identity and to make sure they have nothing left to fight for or with...their thinking is simple without reason. Thanks.
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08/17/2010 8:25:00 AM
If you "find it hard to sympathize" then you're a sociopath just like the kidnappers.
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Anne 08/17/2010 4:48:00 AM
so easy for you to say typing behind your nice screen and cushy office chair. if you were in their position, having to feed your family, you would still consider immigrating illegally
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Rtphx2008 08/17/2010 4:12:00 AM
I do feel for these people but the kidnappers if convited want do but 50 percent of there time compared to the 85 percent of american citizens. But what really gets me is that people that are doing the best they can. That where born here and paid taxes for years and years now not able to get the help the need. Yet if you are illegal you get housing food stamps free medical and with their false IDS vote. How is this fair to americans who are loosing everything even while they are working at just 10 dollars over AHCCS limit... ??????????????? illegals get legal or leave
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Str8jakt213 08/17/2010 4:04:00 AM
Wow, what a racist bunch of knuckle dragging pigs posting these comments. Separate the problems you cruel assholes. Yeah there' an immigration problem (hell your grandparents got in for free) but the monsters torturing these people need to be dealt with utilizing the harshness and disconnected emotion that you are instead inflicting on people who simply wanted to find a way to live a better lives for their families.
Those people need a system of some kind, and requirements to be met in order to become citizens. And yes they need to pay taxes from a much earlier starting point. but don't gloss over their plight with such disdain and cruelty. It just shows how ugly you are and how easily you should be mistreated and forgotten.
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Phillip McKann 08/17/2010 3:51:00 AM
To the contrary, I feel horrible about this. But there is a solution: They can stay in their own country. If things are so bad in Mexico, they should be working to make it better.
Why do Mexicans immigrate to the United States for work and at the same time Guatemalans immigrate to Mexico for the same reason? Mexican people should be doing Mexican jobs.
The United States has exported millions of jobs over the past two decades, why didn't President Fox do anything to get some of that work for his people? All he had to do was have English taught in schools, and the call center jobs would have gone to Mexico instead of India. It would have been a win/win situation for both countries. So blame Mexico's corrupt government, not the United States.
End illegal immigration. Legal immigration can continue. Otherwise, where does it end? The whole world wants to live here.
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Phillip Mckann 08/17/2010 3:43:00 AM
This is absolutely horrible and something must be done. I suggest we get the wall build immediately and put an end to this tragedy.
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Ratso 08/17/2010 12:57:00 AM
Where's the evidence that it's America's kidnapping capital? I've heard this thrown out a couple times--that Phoenix has the second-highest rate in the world--but I have yet to see a source.
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stik 08/17/2010 12:22:00 AM
Exactly, those points and increased education levels within Mexico are real solutions to these issues.
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stik 08/17/2010 12:19:00 AM
So by your logic, any lawful standard that anyone determines according to their own personal subjective standard to be so "long, expensive, and difficult that it is not a genuine option" should immediately render that lawful standard null and void and makes any ILLEGAL path to that goal acceptable. Talk about a BS argument.
Illegal immigrants don't have the right to move or live here, it is a privilege. The legal path is the ONLY legitimate path allowable to our decent ordered society. If they want to live here, come here legally and abide by our laws. If not, get or stay the h*ll out. If you want to change this situation, then try doing it democratically through elections/referendums/initiatives and support for INS/Immigration reforms that best fit your ideals instead of giving unfounded support for illegal activities.
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roll eyes 08/17/2010 12:07:00 AM
"It's comments like these that make you and others like you almost as sick and demented as the kidnappers who torture and kill the immigrants. The lack of humanity is astounding."
What a load of mindless stupidity. Saying "Yawn" as a reply makes a person "almost as sick and demented as the kidnappers who torture and kill the immigrants" and shows an "astounding" "lack of humanity"?? Your exaggerated whiny idiotic hyperbole is laughable and is a great example of your side of the argument.
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American Citizen 08/16/2010 11:42:00 PM
I find it hard to sympathize. They know form all the stories that this stuff happens.
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Ford312v 08/16/2010 11:07:00 PM
This should be translated to Spanish and published in every Mexican publication possible.
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Disgusted 08/16/2010 10:56:00 PM
It's comments like these that make you and others like you almost as sick and demented as the kidnappers who torture and kill the immigrants. The lack of humanity is astounding.
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juan 08/16/2010 10:54:00 PM
cry me a rio grande
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Wnye 08/16/2010 10:54:00 PM
Well from what I can see, they want a better lives for themselves. Nothing wrong with that. Plain and simple. It is everyone's right to have a better life. More then likely they saved that hard earned money so they could pay to have a better life. We are all intitled to that. It isn't anyone'e right to treat people that way no matter what. And the sad thing is many do not report it because they feel they will get into more problems for sneaking in illegally anyway. Again I will say, it isn't anything, any different from what each and everyone of us would to do pay for the price of freedom and a good life for their families. At the end of the day we all wish for better lives and for freedom. It's too bad that what we feel would be a better life is nothing like what they wish for.
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Foo 08/16/2010 10:44:00 PM
You're a fool.
In the days of Ellis island, you could show up and immigrate.
Did you read the bit in the article where USCIS is only now beginning to process visa applications for Mexican nationals who applied in 1994 -- 16 years ago?
The "They should just go through legal channels" is a BS argument -- the legal path to living in the US is so long, expensive, and difficult that it is not a genuine option.
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Notachance 08/16/2010 10:29:00 PM
Simple solution...stay home!!
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Jon Pedersen 08/16/2010 9:42:00 PM
Yawn
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Your Name 08/16/2010 9:34:00 PM
Ummmm.. that would be RIGHT not rite. Who is the smart one here again?
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John 08/16/2010 9:15:00 PM
Is the duct tape in the picture over his nose so that he won't recognize their smell later in court?
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Trollsbridge69 08/16/2010 5:07:00 PM
If it cost them $17oo to come here & they only make $7.80 a day why do they work over 1700 days just to come here to get this kind of treatment or get deported. They are trying to convince us they are smart rite.
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Sadania 08/16/2010 11:52:00 AM
The Mexicans used to call it the Spaniards, who butchered them, and would line up the Indians in circles and light them on fire,that was illegal immigration also ..........when Spain invaded Mexico......................
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Sadania 08/16/2010 11:47:00 AM
Yeah, but they built America and unfortunatley the native americans lost, but they did not lose against the mexican invaders and beat them back into mexico. Geronimo kicks ass!!!
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mb 08/15/2010 9:18:00 PM
why dont we just let them have the usa we all go there more natural resourses,nice beaches good weather no illegals,then when they screw it up here we come back
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Julie Peterson 08/15/2010 8:38:00 PM
"WOW, do ya think it might be better and easier to change that corrupt government?" No, Dave, I don't. Ever tried? Hey, did you read the article? The annual quota for legal immigration is laughably small, and the backlog is 16 years.
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08/15/2010 6:43:00 PM
I really liked this article until Alonzo began chiming off about SB 1070 which has nothing to do with the rest of the article. I think the way these people have been treated is disgusting but even Alonzo in his contraditions stated with the increased numbers of illegal immigrants crossing the AZ. border, cartels and smugglers see an oppurtunity to increase their money profits. Which in turn tells me that illegal immigration is the problem behind such criminal activity,. if illegals did not cross the border there would be no business for smuggling but it has gone on for so long at such a high profit that the cartels and smugglers will stop at nothing to keep the business moving. This bill should have been passed years ago but again a day late and a dollar short.Closed minded people need to understand that this has nothing to do with the punishment of innocent people who want a better life, but a need to damper criminal activity that has gone on for way too long. There is no other way except to enforce the laws of the land.
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08/15/2010 6:31:00 PM
I really liked this article until Alonzo began chiming off about SB 1070 which has nothing to do with the rest of the article but everything to do with the crime. I think the way these people have been treated is disgusting but even Alonzo in his contraditions stated with the increased numbers of illegal immigrants crossing the AZ. border, cartels and smugglers see an oppurtunity to increase their money profits. Which in turn tells me that illegal immigration is the problem behind such criminal activity,. if illegals did not cross the border there would be no business for smuggling but it has gone on for so long at such a high profit that the cartels and smugglers will stop at nothing to keep the business moving. This bill should have been passed years ago but again a day late and a dollar short.Closed minded people need to understand that this has nothing to do with the punishment of innocent people who want a better life, but a need to damper criminal activity that has gone on for way too long. There is no other way except to enforce the laws of the land.
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Puckrat18 08/15/2010 5:24:00 PM
You know what else is funny? How much these illegals despise ICE and IIMPACT but then were so happy to see them when they needed them. What's not funny is so much tax dollar waste. We should bill Mexico every time we have to do this!
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Blackhawk19 08/15/2010 5:19:00 PM
Well, this bleeding heart story starts out the same as every other one the New Times publishes; as someone was trying "desperately to start a better life", they tried to enter the U.S. ILLEGALLY. I don't believe these torturous kidnappers should live another minute on this planet, but I have trouble feeling sorry for someone who knows they're doing wrong and then bitches when it backfires on them. When you know you're speeding, shut up about the ticket. When your husband beats you and you keep going back to him, oh well. When you drink until you can't walk and then get behind the wheel, you DESERVE what's coming your way. Funny thing is, every one of those situations is avoidable by just DOING THE RIGHT THING. Here's an idea: take the $1800 and APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP!! I'm personally sick of my tax money being wasted on this anymore. This lady deserves a better life; everyone on the planet does. But there is a procedure and no one should be exempt from it. When immigrants entered this country on Ellis Island in the 1930's, they knew it was a PRIVLEDGE to come here and they did everything the country required of them to enter. If you can't abide by our country's rules, it's quite simple; you can't come here.
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An Arizonan 08/15/2010 8:42:00 AM
I agee, this problem has been years and years, decades really, in the making. It is a result of years of Mexico being a quasi-communist country that discouraged things like free enterprise, freedom of expression and freedom of religion, education and opportunities for all of it's citzens, etc. Read up on the history of Mexico, especially the period between 1920 and 1950 (I have). This is actually mostly Mexico's problem, which they are hypocritally foisting upon us, by not only allowing illegal migration but encouraging and aiding it. Why does the Mexican government do things like publish and distribute route maps for illegals, pamphlets giving them advice on how to cross the desert, etc. ?????? Because illegal migration is a sort of "safety valve" for them. If access to the U.S. is restricted down to practically zero, something has to give somewhere, and the likely result would be a mass revolt, bringing the government and the upper classes in Mexico down. IMO this is really what Mexico needs - a real revolution where it's people rise up and throw off it's so called government. This New Times story addresses none of this of course. The assumption in the story by the author is that because millions want to come here to the U.S., they are by virtue of wanting it, entitled to come here. I say bull. Just because someone may want to come here doesn't automatically entitle them to be here. The better and maybe even safer course of action for all Mexican citizens is to work for change within their own country. The story mentions the wait times for legal immigration. Instead of spending all of that money (where do they get it in the first place?) and time waiting, why not use all of that to be politically active within their own country??
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An Arizonan 08/15/2010 8:30:00 AM
I agee, this problem has been years and years, decades really, in the making, and yes this is actually mostly Mexico's problem, which they are hypocritally foisting upon us, by not only allowing illegal migration but encouraging and aiding it. Why does the Mexican government do things like publish and distribute route maps for illegals, pamphlets giving them advice on how to cross the desert, etc. ?????? Because illegal migration is a sort of "safety valve" for them. If access to the U.S. is restricted down to practically zero, something has to give somewhere, and the likely result would be a mass revolt, bringing the government and the upper classes in Mexico down. IMO this is really what Mexico needs - a real revolution where it's people rise up and throw off it's so called government. This New Times story addresses none of this of course. The assumption in the story by the author is that because millions want to come here to the U.S., they are by virtue of wanting it, entitled to come here. I say bull. Just because someone may want to come here doesn't automatically entitle them to be here. The better and maybe even safer course of action for all Mexican citizens is to work for change within their own country. The story mentions the wait times for legal immigration. Instead of spending all of that money (where do they get it in the first place?) and time waiting, why not use all of that to be politically active within their own country??
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08/15/2010 1:27:00 AM
Yes, here we go again. Taxpayer dollars hard at work because these illegal immigrants choose to take risks. Of course, now I'm gonna be labeled a racist because I'm not a bleeding heart. Well, the latter is true. It's the former that advocates for these people use to set their agenda and yell that they have rights. Taxpayer money that could be better spent on US citizens, legal residents, and those going about immigration the right way.
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Thephnxman 08/14/2010 4:45:00 PM
Let's see: 300,000 ILLEGALS per year @ $1800 is about $500M!!! That's a pretty good sum to start a serious revolution, instead of getting stuck between smugglers and corrupt police. Begin shooting a few police, and they will get the idea to stop their intimidation and corruption; shoot a few (at least) smugglers, and eventually get to the kingpins. But the people have to do the work themselves...instead of selling off their wives and daughters by doing nothing!!
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Thephnxman 08/14/2010 4:37:00 PM
My question: Where did the "pollos" get the initial $1800 when "...the lucky few who found them earned a meager 100 pesos for a full day's work. Less than $7.80 a day."???
This story is just one of many that New Times and the Arizona Republic (both "Open Borders" advocates) put out for the public to sympathize with the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
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JesterJackson 08/14/2010 9:23:00 AM
What is anti law enforcement about reporting on reality? This is what it is and what is happening in your communities, right under your noses. All of Joe's 'crime sweeps' are a total waste of time if you are serious about stoping these types of crimes. And this is just on the enforcement side we have to treat the root cause not just the symptoms.
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Mrhinkle 08/14/2010 5:15:00 AM
$1800 to enter a country illegally? Yes, I feel sorry for the victims..but, don't they have radio or media from where they are from that informs them, now, is not a good time to travel to the United States. And the kidnapers..no punishment is to great. I for one want this wrong doing stop. Send a message engaging in this type of crime and go to prison.
Mexico really has problem, that so many people want to flee.
They need to change conditions there, not run away.
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Contrafax 08/14/2010 3:25:00 AM
this problem existed for decades before NAFTA, the term wetback was coined to refer to illegal aliens crossing at the Rio Grande at the Mexica/Texas border because a significan majority of illegal border crossers were coming in this way. I became aware of this term in the mid 70's. NAFTA did not cause this. Mexico's incompetance to govern itself competenly did. I still think this is Primarily Mexico's problem. We should fix our end by securing our border, busting those that hire and often abuse illegal laborers.
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Contrafax 08/14/2010 3:16:00 AM
Christian13, it could be that PPD is trying to show just how bad the problem is. It could be a freedom of information act deal or the reporter was freelance and the PPD did not know the reporter would sell the story to New Times
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Ladyrideraz 08/14/2010 2:23:00 AM
Why should Joe do anything about this? That would be protection of criminals. I am not saying that I like the treatment of anyone like this but they are ILLEGAL, they created this situation themselves.
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Ron_nesmith 08/13/2010 10:39:00 PM
WOW ! Thats the most intelligent reasoning I have heard yet ! No racisim or prejudice at all behind it, just pure leadership with an intellect and a vision. I am most impressed Haddie Nuff - lets put you in charge of Arizona!!!
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08/13/2010 10:30:00 PM
I know you got a pair....spit them out, they don't belong to you....[leaky rag]
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Ron_nesmith 08/13/2010 9:55:00 PM
What pathetic reasoning! It's about as pathetic as when Thomas Jefferson was writing down on the Declaration Of Independance that "We hold these truths to be self evident,that all men are created equal"........Meanwhile as he was writing this he owned a plantation full of slaves. Once again, the hypocracy is sickening!
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Christian13 08/13/2010 8:55:00 PM
Id like to know what the PPD is doing allowing an anti-law enforcement junk-paper like the New Times to be present during their investigations of kidnappings, especially being present for victim interviews. Thats really fucked up. Then again, so is PPD.
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Zilla 08/13/2010 7:59:00 PM
This would be the only instance where their "faces lit up" when Phoenix Police & ICE were involved and put their lives on the line and entered this home.... in any other case they are considered as "racists".
Unreal............Hypocrites.
New Times- "the pollos were hardly set free".
Question- Why would the be?? They were smuggled here, they ARE NOT US CITIZENS!!!
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PNWSon 08/13/2010 7:06:00 PM
Frnkone, This was within the City of Phoenix, where the Phoenix Police has jurisdiction. I know borders can be confusing and/or meaningless to illegals such as yourself, so hope this helps.
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Ozzlvr 08/13/2010 6:56:00 PM
Check out the protesters,Americans are defending these illegals. Damn traitors!!!!!
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Ozzylvr 08/13/2010 6:53:00 PM
No they never learn. Do you think they dont know the chances that they are taking? Do you think that all these mexicans dont spread the word to one another? OF COURSE THEY DO!!!! THEY KNOW THE RISKS!!!! THEY PREFER TO TAKE THE CHANCE AND STILL BE HERE ILLEGALLY!!! I know mexicans have been in az for at LEAST 30 years, have their own business married to american women and are still ILLEGAL!!!! I hate illegals!!!!!!
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Ozzylvr 08/13/2010 6:46:00 PM
Very sad but that is true
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Connie 08/13/2010 6:36:00 PM
grow a pair and RESPECT others.
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Frnkone 08/13/2010 6:30:00 PM
Read this report and think about it long and hard, sheriff Joke has done shit to stop this kind of thing, he wants you to believe this so you can vote him in and he can continue his sickness against all of us. Maricopa wake up time is now to vote Joke out of office,
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Ozzylvr 08/13/2010 6:26:00 PM
Americans pay! Illegal immegrants have more rights that I do and I am a born and raised in the good ole usa.
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Proud Arizonan 08/13/2010 6:04:00 PM
The problem is not AZ or how we handle the border! The problem is the mexicans that keep coming over the border. Why can't you get this right! These articles you keep posting under this heading are a bunch of shit!
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Majkumajku 08/13/2010 1:08:00 PM
this is due to nafta creating another capitalist country in mexico,where only the rich matter.it allowed thousands of large companies to move their operations into mexico and pay their workers a dollar per day.they took thousands and thousands of jobs away from the states where they had to pay a livable wage and shipped them down south of the border where they could exploit people who are desperate to keep food on the table.not to mention all of the other corporations who have shipped hundreds of thousands of jobs overseas for the same reason
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An Arizonan 08/13/2010 9:39:00 AM
Of course nothing at all is said about putting pressure on Mexico to improve conditions within it's own country (creation of jobs and industry, etc) so that people wouldn't be so desperate to leave. Instead of having marches and protests in this country, they should grow a pair and march in the streets of Mexico City, and bring down the government there.
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C.Johnson 08/13/2010 5:40:00 AM
..And who pays for the SWAT raids and detectives to save thier illegal criminal asses?...
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Scott Seckel 08/13/2010 3:23:00 AM
Fantastic analysis, Mr. Pulsifer. Well-thought out, well-researched, and well-written. Your commentary should be read by policy makers. Thank you for taking the time to share it with us.
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Emil Pulsifer 08/12/2010 11:19:00 PM
Everybody seems to keep missing the point. The Tucson Sector has far and away the largest number of Border Patrol agents, at 3,318, of any of the nine Southwest border sectors. In second place is the El Paso Sector with 2,712 agents. Arizona has more miles of fencing than California or Texas. (For details, see The Arizona Republic, Sunday June 20th, 2010, full-page map titled "Ramped-up Border Enforcement", page A20.)
Yet, Arizona continues to experience the lion's share of border crossers, even though border apprehensions in California have been on the rise since 2005 (see Figure 5, Percentage of Southern Border Apprehensions by State):
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL32562.pdf
This begs the question, why is Arizona such a smuggler's paradise? I refer not only to human smugglers but also to drug smugglers from Mexico. In 2009 the Arizona Republic ran a story titled "DPS Boosts Patrols to Stop Drugs at Source" which contains this remarkable but unexplained quote:
"More drugs are seized along the Arizona border than any other stretch of the international border in the United States, but the state's highway system and easy access to other major markets still makes Arizona an inviting thoroughfare for drug runners."
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/08/30/20090830dpsunit0831.html
Well, what is it, exactly, about the state's highway system which makes Arizona an inviting thoroughfare for drug runners? Could it make it an inviting thoroughfare for human smugglers too?
Unlike California and Texas, Arizona has almost NO permanent Border Patrol checkpoints. People seem to forget, that once someone crosses the border, they need to get to their (final or stop-over) destination somehow, be it Tucson or Phoenix. Once they sneak across the border, they don't walk the whole way, they get in trucks and vans (if they're not already in them) and are driven there, largely by professional smugglers. See Figure 3, Border Patrol Sectors and Permanent Checkpoints along the Southwest Border, page 17 of this pdf (a U.S. Government Accountability Office report): the map is from 2005 and the Yuma Sector has at least one permanent checkpoint: so far as I know the Tucson Sector still has no operational permanent U.S. Border Patrol checkpoints:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09824.pdf
Get the picture?
In California, in the San Diego Sector, after the first phase of Operation Gatekeeper beefed up the Border Patrol presence, there was a fundamental shift from "every man for himself walk across the border" infiltration, to the use of professional smugglers. The second phase of Operation Gatekeeper added new, permanent, interior checkpoints, and beefed up older ones. It wasn't until 1997 that border apprehensions in the San Diego Sector showed a dramatic drop, even though the men on the border had been put there in 1994 and the solid fencing had been installed a year before.
While it's true that illegal immigrants were used to coming in through San Diego Sector and that it might take some time for the bulk of them to grasp and respond to the changes, the fact is that Arizona STILL has a problem despite the fact that the Tucson Sector has far more agents than any other along the Southwest border, and Arizona has more miles of fencing (both anti-personnel and anti-vehicle) than either California or Texas.
The fault doesn't belong to the feds, but to Arizona politicians. I suggest that the need for Arizona's checkpoints to close and move intermittently allows professional smugglers to use observational intelligence to avoid the temporary checkpoints. The article points out how complex and sophisticated the smugglers are, using spotters to identify Border Patrol in the desert and route smugglers around them. How difficult could it be to wait until a temporary checkpoint closes and then send the smuggling vehicles through? Here's a link to some background on this issue, including fairly detailed analysis from the U.S. General Accountability Office
http://arizona.typepad.com/blog/2007/11/why-interior-bo.html
Note that despite Kolbe's retirement, the establishment of permanent checkpoints continues to be delayed for political reasons:
http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=12353726
Note the culprit here: it's not the feds, it's Arizona.
There are some other factors that should be considered. San Diego Sector, where Operation Gatekeeper concentrated, was the preferred entry area because it was a quick and direct method of crossing the border, with few natural impediments and (at the time) few man-made impediments. But the border there is only 66 miles. Within the San Diego Sector, the borders of the Imperial Beach Station and the Chula Vista Station, where, where many of the crossings occurred, are each roughly 5 miles long.
Also, there was a shift in the way that agents were deployed. Previously, agents there had been free to roam the sector and capture as many illegals as they could, inside the U.S. border. Operation Gatekeeper tied the front line Border Patrol agents to specific posts and did not allow them to roam; they were also prohibited from giving chase to those who made it across and fled into the interior (that was for the second tier of agents to deal with). The strategy went from maximizing apprehensions before Gatekeeper, to providing a visible deterrent afterward.
Could it be that the drop in apprehensions was the result of the change of strategy rather than a change in smuggling traffic? There were allegations of fraud by Border Patrol agents, claiming that both reported apprehension numbers and the reported number of those who got past the first tier of agents on the border, were kept artificially low. These allegations could not be substantiated by congressional investigators. But the biggest argument that traffic patterns really did change consists of the huge surge in apprehensions in the Tucson Sector relative to the large decrease reported in the San Diego Sector. So, apparently Gatekeeper did something right, even though the fixed-deployment was very unpopular among Border Patrol agents. (What kind of deployment strategy does Arizona use?)
http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/9807/gkp01.htm