And HOW long does it finally take to get the forensic analyses!!?? 3 month for a job - done in 2 days??? Who is hiding here something?? And Why?? New Times stay on top of that story!
By Ray Stern
By Ray Stern
By New Times
By Amy Silverman
By Stephen Lemons
By Stephen Lemons
By Monica Alonzo
By Chris Parker
Babeu, an anti-illegal immigrant spokesman of increasing national prominence since the famous April 30 shooting incident involving Puroll, attempted the following defenses after we published the results of our four-month investigation into the shooting, allegedly by drug-smuggling men of color (Latinos or Native Americans, according to the deputy's account):
• New Times is a "conspiracy theory publication" that favors leaps of logic over bona fide reporting techniques, and the newspaper rushed to judgment that the deputy was lying within hours after Puroll reported being shot. (To the contrary, we started questioning the deputy's account only after law enforcement sources from myriad agencies contacted us with concerns in the days after the incident. We then spent hundreds of hours — many of them in dialogue with Pinal County Sheriff's Office officials — analyzing every aspect of the complex case.)
• The paper went "expert shopping," perhaps even going so far as to "hire" forensic pathologists, psychiatrists, crime-scene experts, and private investigators quoted in the piece. (Neither "shopping" nor "hiring" of experts occurred. We contacted the best, most experienced pathologists we could find — and they weren't all in agreement on certain aspects of the evidence — and asked them to analyze the case.)
• That he has "reopened" the case by sending Deputy Puroll's bloody T-shirt to the Arizona Department of Public Safety to be scientifically analyzed for gunshot residue evidence and other signs of a contact or near-contact wound. The testing, Babeu continues to insist, will "put this matter to bed once and for all" by proving that Deputy Puroll was truthful about getting grazed in the left flank by a marijuana smuggler who fired an AK-47 assault rifle at him. (Babeu has not reopened the case, which would mean re-interviewing his deputy, asking a litany of unresolved questions, and looking into all aspects of the prior investigation. What Pinal County has done is send an evidentiary item — the T-shirt — to a state crime lab five months after the fact for evaluation. That shirt is but one component of the case, a piece of a much larger puzzle. The shirt alone isn't proof positive of whether the deputy is lying or has been truthful.)
• That he was "befuddled" by statements, made by a DPS spokesman at a news conference last week, that state detectives were surprised when Pinal County relegated the DPS to processing the Puroll crime scene rather than investigating the entire matter. (Babeu told the Associated Press after last Wednesday's news conference that he disagreed with the DPS for making negative statements "at a time that there's questions about a piece of evidence, and they weigh in and try to distance themselves and raise additional questions.
• That the PCSO concluded months ago "the incident occurred as Deputy Puroll reported it." (True enough. Sheriff Babeu and his detectives seemed to decide from the moment they heard the deputy's "I've been hit!" 911 call that he was telling the truth.)
The New Times investigation raised doubts about Deputy Puroll's story and questioned parts of Pinal County's investigation.
Among the issues:
• The shortage of expended shell casings at and near the desert crime scene that may have been fired by Puroll's alleged assailants (going by the deputy's own account).
• The inability of a quasi-cavalry of law enforcement officers by land and by air to ever locate the half-dozen smugglers (Puroll said he probably hit one of the bad guys with gunfire) or any of the five backpacks supposedly filled with marijuana that the deputy reported seeing.
• The deputy's improbable account to Pinal County investigators about not wearing his backpack during the "shoot-out." (It remains unclear whether he was carrying it for some reason when the smugglers supposedly opened fire on him or whether he took it off during the clash. The backpack, which surely would have been damaged by the bullet that struck Puroll just above his left kidney, had he been wearing it, showed no signs of getting hit by gunfire.)
• Puroll's "interview" with Pinal County criminal investigators, which was more of an uninterrupted monologue than a search for the truth by the detectives — no follow-up questions of substance and no quest for telling details that may have aided the investigation ensued.
• New Times quoted nationally known forensic pathologists, some of whom concluded, on the basis of photographs, that Deputy Puroll's grazing wound was caused by a contact or near-contact shot from an undetermined caliber of bullet. Puroll, to the contrary, has told investigators that he was shot from at least 25 yards away.
• The angle of Puroll's wound, which was horizontal, does not mesh with the angle of the distinctly uphill shot from the first of at least two assailants the deputy described to investigators.
Sheriff Babeu continues to insist in interviews that his agency's chain of custody (paperwork that tracks the movement and location of physical evidence from the moment police obtain it) was followed in the Puroll case, specifically the bloody T-shirt.
And HOW long does it finally take to get the forensic analyses!!?? 3 month for a job - done in 2 days??? Who is hiding here something?? And Why?? New Times stay on top of that story!
if there was gun shot residue to be found, wouldn't it be on the outer flannel shirt he had with him?
Ha-ha! New Times = Epic Fail
Your hatred for AZ law enforcement sounds like a broken record. You should just post headlines like "Illegal aliens good! AZ law enforcement bad!"
Do you guys even believe your own bullshit, or is this some elaborate troll on your readers?
Just goes to show how some people will believe anything that they read. Even if it is written by a reporter whom for whatever reason, has a problem with people prosecuting illegal immigrants. The ignorance that is shown by the reporters of The New Times and some of the readers is astounding
they werent all in agreement, I never heard the side from the new times that said it was probable that he was shot from a distance.
Looking over the Pinalcchio story once again, trying to reconstruct a timeline, one thing I noticed is that while Puroll was making his recorded 911 call, shots rang out and he said "I'm taking fire". I suspect that this recording could be submitted for sonic analysis to identify the frequency distribution of the shots. It might be possible to determine if these were consistent with AK-47s or with his M-16 or his Glock sidearm. Just an idea, but if they could be identified as originating from weapons different from those carried by Puroll they would give his story some additional credibility.
I hope the media does not go along with case closed on this subject.The story Deputy Puroll dectates to the people sounds so insulting to our intelligence, come on lets get the truth out of the top dog Sheriff Babeu! Give a man enough rope and he will hang himself. The truth is close.
Well, sometimes the left tries anything and everything to support their view. This time they failed to advance their position. The deputy is telling the truth and they will have to find another rock to crawl out of. But I still give the NT a pass as they also go after Mary Rose Wilcox and there, they have a lot of stuff to dig up on that shady person.
It is under-educated people like you with Arizona educations that continue to give carte blanche support to any law enforcement types. Nothing has been proved OR disproved. He has never been QUESTIONED by an outside agency. (He was never really questioned by his own management!) Where is the outer dress shirt that he was supposed to be wearing? If a dirty, dark undershirt was all that he was wearing on top that day he was out of uniform. That shirt needs to be tested. Of course by now it probably won't offer any good info. He needs to be given a lie detector by an agency like the FBI. Until then, nothing has been proved one way or the other. When you have a good number of law enforcement types who were more than just suspicious of ole Louie's side of the story something was definitely wrong. It won't be over until a definitive investigation has been done!
It will be hilarious when you're conspiracy theory is proven wrong - just like your pro-illegal immigration stance. I hear New Times is close to Chapter 11? I wonder why....
Thanks for that info, Joedrman -- very useful. Of course, just because it's improper procedurally, doesn't mean it couldn't have been done anyway, but even if it had been, there should have been no wet blood after all that time anyway. And if Puroll had been wearing the t-shirt for any length of time (e.g., until law enforcement reached him or until medics reached or treated him) I think the stain should have been considerably larger due to the wicking effect of the fabric and the number of surface blood vessels ruptured (take a look at photos of the wound; and if Puroll took the t-shirt off early and never put it back on, the blood on it should have coagulated early on.
Here's a "what-if" scenario. What if the original t-shirt had obvious close contact discharge marks? What if it was never intended to submit it for analysis? What if the subsequent questions, or the prospect of subsequent questions, made it desirable to at least have photographs of the t-shirt? What if a fake t-shirt was staged five days later, and photographed immediately, either because they didn't think, or because they planned to claim that the photo had been taken shortly after the shooting incident, but later realized that such a claim could not stand up to scrutiny? Perhaps some administrative error or record made this impossible -- perhaps there was timestamp or other evidence indicating when the photo was taken, that was not obvious but which could become a public record -- or perhaps it was not possible to take everyone into this hypothetical conspiracy and someone untrustworthy already knew when the photo session took place? As for the apparently snipped out portions, perhaps the recreation was not satisfactory in all respects?
What if Puroll was taking his rifle off and the strap got stuck on the backpack or entangled on something attached to the pack? That would explain why the pack was taken off. Now, the rifle is being held by one hand, probably from the middle, with the hand near the trigger, while the backpack is being held with the other hand. Puroll is struggling to get the pack off and the rifle strap unentangled. Perhaps he is in a hurry. Perhaps a scorpion crawls up his trouser leg while he's doing this and he's startled. Suddenly the gun goes off. As soon as he is sure the wound isn't serious, the consequences are considered.
Now Puroll is terribly embarrassed. He knows that the ribbing he will take from his colleagues, some of whom don't like his brusque manner and stand-offishness, will be fierce and never ending. He will be known as Old Sure Shot or something of the sort, forever. The accident will likely get media attention. He can be a laughingstock, or he can be a hero. Perhaps he calls an old friend to discuss options, communicate indirectly with headquarters, and discretely determine whether high-level cooperation -- surely necessary -- will be forthcoming. Perhaps, since a rancher has recently been shot and since his boss is big on SB 1070 and border security, some political capital can be made from the incident.
All of this is purely hypothetical. Just some ideas which are, perhaps, consistent as an alternative interpretation of reported events.
NEWSFLASH: Blood evidence of any type is NEVER stored or contained in anything airtight or plastic.The blood will mold and the evidence will be destroyed. So after 5 days of the bloody Tshirt sitting and drying so to speak, there will be no MOIST blood on it. .
Either way you look at this story, it is not adding up........ Why wait 5 days to photograph the T-shirt ? It is evidence from said crime scene. DPS crime lab would have determined if there was GSR on the shirt and also at what angle the bullet would have entered. There are way to many holes in this story................. sounds like a lot of back peddling.
HAHA! You were wrong! Now where is your apology for trying to smear this good deputy's name? DPS did their job now do yours.
Arizona Politicians Jailed!
Arizona's motley crew of sordid politicians go to jail.
Deputy Purroll you admit not being informed by not reading or watching the news. Had you done both, and kept yourself informed, you’d probably have a better understand why the media does not trust Babeu. Your Boss made major mistakes in handling the “crime scene.” Since you have more experience than your boss, you should have insisted the shirt be processed for GSR. Direct your anger towards the man that represents your department. Sorry Deputies, but the truth is… as long as Babeu remains in office, any incidents that involves Babeu will always be scrutinized by the public and media. As a tax payer, I want all public employees to be well informed especially law enforcement. What is it do you watch TV or not?
The funniest non sequitur was one of Puroll's statements that aired on last night's Channel 5 News:
“Until this shooting happened, and I got home that night and was watching the news, I never heard of 1070. I do not watch the local news. I don't read the newspapers and I don't care about politics."
That is, "I do not watch the local news, I don't read the newspapers and I don't care about politics. I got home that night and was watching the news."
P.P.S. Remember, there wasn't a whole lot of blood on this t-shirt to coagulate. In fact, the size of the bloodstain is itself a bit peculiar given the wound itself and the wicking effect of fabric. Look at the way the wound is still bleeding, in long drips (some of which have been wiped off by medical personnel, with one remaining) in the photograph of Puroll's bare back in the original Pinalcchio article. Puroll was airlifted out 80 minutes after his 911 call, according to that article. That's 80 minutes of bleeding. Why isn't the blood patch on the t-shirt considerably larger? If the answer is that Puroll took the t-shirt off immediately at the scene, then why didn't the blood coagulate?
P.S. Even if the t-shirt had been placed in an airtight plastic evidence bag, there should have been no wet blood after five days. It was also exposed to air (and deprived of fresh blood) during the entire time between when it was removed from Puroll's torso and the time it was placed in an evidence bag. Even if it were placed in such a bag on the scene, as it was removed from Puroll, there was air in the bag itself as it was sealed.
"The ID tech didn't photograph the shirt until five days had passed, on the morning of May 5...The stain on the shirt consists of both dried and seemingly moist blood."
I wish you had published this information in the original article. I saw the wet bloodstains in the photograph in the published edition but assumed that the photograph had been taken shortly after it had been removed from Puroll's body.
"Normal clotting time of blood ranges from 3 to 15 minutes in healthy individuals." (see link below)
There is plenty of air in a storage locker, and even with the shirt folded or balled up, there would be no wet bloodstains after five days. Could it be that this is not the original t-shirt?
Keep bloodhounding this story. The PCSO story stinks to high heaven. Does Deputy Puroll get to eat breakfast every day on county time and then go off grid until early afternoon? As a taxpayer I want to know.
Any reasonable person with even an Arizonan education should be able to see through this smoke screen put up by Baboo. As I had said before why wasn't his dress-outer shirt tested? If he was not wearing it he was out of uniform. For if we are to believe that he only had that dirty, dark shirt on, who could ID him as a law enforcement agent? Until the FBI , or some outside agency investigates with Puroll and Baboo under oath, we will never know. Another Arizona mystery. With the arrest of the Phoenix cop who supposedly shot an unarmed man to death, and his "blue line partner" who would not cover-up for him, we should all feel safe in our beds at night! Not!
Are you an expert on each agency's dress code in the state or just Pinal County's? Different uniforms for different assignments. This includes shirts, pants, boots, hats, jackets, even gun belts. Stop getting your info from Adam-12. Talk about an Arizona education, which 3rd world country did you receive yours in?
If you received your education anywhere but the Northeast, North, or California you are certainly lacking in your K-12 education. If you received yours here in Arizona you only received a 45 -50th in the low end of this country's states. The south and southwest being the worst education. As for what are the dress standards of each police agency I am not an expert. But, I do know from my military experience that they issue you T-shirts and dress shirts. i.e. that is the one that one wears over the T-shirt or undershirt. When was the last time you saw a cop wearing only his undershirt on duty? You and other redneck, right wing yokels deserve the police state you get. I bet you were never in the military!
There are definitely gobs of unanswered questions, which Puroll won't be answering since, with Babeu's blessing, he's apparently refused to submit to an outside investigation However, since Puroll is with Search & Rescue it's understandable (maybe encouraged) for him to be wearing other garb than a dress-outer shirt. A commenter on a Trib report pointed this out. "Puroll was wearing khakis, a dark green T-shirt (he either was wearing a heavy long-sleeved shirt or carrying it around his backpack), a floppy hat, and combat boots." Rubin described the long sleeved shirt as a flannel jacket-type shirt. Still doesn't answer his purpose in going into the desert boondocks, supposedly "dangerous" territory, no protective garb...and alone. As the dispatcher said to her co-worker, "What's that fool doing out there alone?"
"• New Times quoted nationally known forensic pathologists, some of whom concluded, on the basis of photographs,"
Yep, no physical examination of the evidence needed.
Rubin, you are a fuck stick.
Hey Rubin and the rest of you libearl a?? holes. Shut the Hell up. You wouldn't know what it is to put you life on the line if you life depended on it. Go back under the rock and play with yourself.
Actually, as a retired law enforcement professional, I DO know what it's like to put my life on the line and I certainly questioned many aspects of this incident. As have many current and/or retired peace officers. By the way, how does one "Shut the Hell up" when simply typing on a blog?
So, some of you folks choose to lambaste Mr. Rubin and others for simply asking questions that should be answered.
Open your mind and let some fresh air in for a change. Unless, of course, it just goes in one ear and out the other, unimpeded.
This guys singing the same song; hes got credentials. Check it out:Just Say "Yes!" Legalizing Drugs Is Goodfor Society ... and the Economy, HarvardProf. SaysPosted Oct 06, 2010 10:06am EDT by Henry Blodget in Recession, PoliticsRelated: SAM, BUD, PPH, XPH, MRK, JNJShare 84 retweet 2 Email PrintCalifornia residents will vote in November on whether or not to legalizemarijuana. If they do vote "yes," says Harvard economics professorJeffrey Miron, that should only be the beginning.All drugs should be legalized nationwide, Miron says. Pot, cocaine, LSD,crystal-meth --- you name it."Legalizing drugs would save roughly $41.3 billion per year ingovernment expenditure on enforcement of prohibition. Of these savings,$25.7 billion would accrue to state and local governments, while $15.6billion would accrue to the federal government," Miron claims in a recentCato Institute report he co-authored.According to their website, "The report also estimates that druglegalization would yield tax revenue of $46.7 billion annually, assuminglegal drugs were taxed at rates comparable to those on alcohol andtobacco. Approximately $8.7 billion of this revenue would result fromlegalization of marijuana and $38.0 billion from legalization of otherdrugs."But won't we become a nation of drug addicts?No, says Miron. Walk down any city street and you can already buy legaldrugs in multiple establishments: Caffeine at Starbucks, nicotine at thesupermarket, alcohol at bars and restaurants. And we're not ALLaddicted to all of these drugs.Our current drug policy doesn't work, Miron observes. Despite ~$40billion spent on enforcement and prosecution, drug use is stillwidespread. Meanwhile, because the products are illegal, they'redangerous, low-quality, and unregulated, and they generate zero taxrevenue.Legalizing drugs would solve those problems, Miron says. It would helpclose the budget deficit. And it would eliminate a bizarre doublestandard, in which Americans are encouraged to drink and smokethemselves to death -- while guzzling addictive coffee and tea -- but become criminals if they dare to get stoned.
Lets pull all remaining troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan immediately. Redeploy them on the thousands of miles of border north, south, east and west; including all of their advanced equip to efficiently and effectively secure our borders. We have waged 40 years of drug war at a cost in the trillions of dollars and are worse off than when we started. Legalize and nationalize recreational pot use by adults with acceptable proof of age; sub out production and distribution of pot to private sector to employ Agri Business Techniques, and Home Depot like logistics, thereby driving down costs, enhancing profits and tax revenues, while undercutting Black Market pricing. This will eliminate the Black Markets incentive and stop the bleeding of resources toward ineffective effort and scant results. Place some of the redeployed troops and put boots-on-the-ground in our school campuses while ramping up anti drug use education in those same schools, all funded by the new revenue source.Provide, in joint effort with the relevant foreign governments, upon registration and rendering of biometrics, a purchasable work visa for immigrants. The visa would be paid in installments; with an initial payment; and, upon employment, collected with the typical payroll withholdings for only those benefits they can legally receive and those obligations, like tax, they would legally owe. This would empower them with a purchased right to work while protecting them under existing labor laws, and eliminate the artificially induced erosion to labor and pay rates. We should adopt term limits for senators and reps.; perhaps 3 terms max.. Strike the term lobby from the English language, regardless of what its called make it illegal. Limit Both Congressional bodies member's salaries to $50,000 per year, adjusted for inflation. Limit political campaign contributions. Level changes for both should be put to general vote.These moves will help to resurrect the economy, balance budget and restore the American Dream in the short term and sustain it for years to come.
Hey DOPE SMOKERS! How about coming out and apologizing to this deputy for this witch hunt now that there is NO PROOF to substantiate your made up drug induced hallucination!!
YOU are the enemy of the State and the ones that are trying to undermine the security of our Country. If you don't like the USA, then LEAVE....there ARE Countries that have legalized drugs, you and them can hallucinate together.
Brandon, you label us as dope smokers simply because we aren't taking all of what Pinal is saying as fact? You have some maturing to do. If you take everything a cop says as being fact, you need to check your sources. By the way, I still don't believe Puroll's story. But you don't have the law enforcement experience that I do, so I won't expect you to understand. No, Brandon, I don't smoke dope and I don't believe Puroll or Babeu.
Nothing I read above is proof of any wrong doing or adequately captures the anarchy of a police shooting scene. After reading this and seeing the interview, it appears the New Times is the one on the defensive for piss poor journalism and slander. I'll take the word of an experienced law enforcement officer ove a news rag that has such a clear agenda and bias that was clear from the minute the shooting was reported.
Gotta love these forensic "investigators," supposed men of science making determinations from a hundred miles away all by looking at photographs. Take that to court why don't you and have the judge laugh you out of the court room.
So now the New TImes has a problem with the state forensic office too?
You guys see a bogeyman under every rock. I'm sure you will now print an apology to all you slandered. Right?
See Tommy, Mia with her Arizona education doesn't even know the difference between slander and libel. Why do I put down Arizona's eduction system?Because it has always been such a pathetic situation here regarding education funding, etc. The republican legislature has controlled what goes into Arizona's education system. And, it has always been at the lowest limits. Such a shame. Having been educated in Connecticut 40 years ago I have always looked our system as abysmal.
Mia, slander is spoken. Libel is printed. It's only libel if something is written that 'harms' a person from an untruthful statement. Puroll has been asked questions, but hasn't been harmed by any of those questions. He initiated the incident, now he has to deal with the outcome. It's all about being a peace officer.
To Paul Rubin--Michael Baden is a charaltan. He has been proven to be a fake numerous times. Hope he cost you a lot of money--he is a skilled liar.Do you have the character and integrity to apologize to the deputy that you slandered with your half-truths? The DPS fed you a line of bull-- you were used in this power struggle. Boy, they really played you.The New Times has always been in the yellow-journalism business--no wonder you are the joke in Arizona.Dare you to expose yourself as the hoax. Your lack of accountability is despictable.
Smoke up guys! Looks like Louie was shot by an AK. Well maybe he was able to mask the gun powder burns from his tee shirt, but was not able to mask the burns to his body because that's what Micheal Boden said happened. Have you ever noticed that Boden always has a definitive opinion as to what happened? Every time either him or Cyril Wecht are asked for their opinion they always give it. They never say "well I would want to see all the evidence first hand, and talk to investigators, and talk to the victim." They never say that, either one of them.
Gotta agree all this work you guys did where you were arguing the distance of the shot is really out the fucking window. You look like a bunch of fucking morons. Seriously, whats up with all the pro immigration shit? You are completely biased.
Hey New Times....looks like your fucking jackass theory and halfassed paid forensic clowns are fucked again. Looks like Pinal Co had it right the first time, as suspected.
Suck on that you fat fucking terd.
It would not surprise me if Sheriff Baboon was the one who shot him. Violence does run in his family, along with foreclosures. Ask the people in the last city the Baboon clan lived in. There's a bigger story there.
Heard the Puroll press conference. Very defensive, " me thinks he doth protest too much ". The case may be closed, but I'm hoping New Times continues the investigation.