Feedback from the Issue of Thursday, July 7, 2011

>DETENTION CLASS

Go after real criminals instead: Gregory Pratt should be commended for an excellent article exposing the hardships of immigration detention ("Huddled Masses," June 23).

In my newly released book, My Trials: What I Learned in Immigration Court, I expose many of the same things and call for massive reform of the immigration court system.

Migrant workers and common laborers should not be detained. [The federal government should] prioritize and go after criminals and absconders.
Paul Grussendorf, retired immigration judge, Washington

Mr. Hyperbole: Mr. Pratt would serve justice much better if he could grasp the definition of criminal behavior. Pratt is a disgrace to Americans.
Michael Hale, Canton, Texas

The original aliens: Native Americans and Mexicans in the Southwest — back before it was attached violently by the United States — used to have a name for illegal aliens: white people.
Anthony Enriquez, Phoenix

So, you don't think detained immigrants are political prisoners?: Your headline calls the jails you cite in your story "gulags." Let me explain something to you fuzzy-headed liberals: "Gulags" are death camps that the Soviets used to throw political prisoners into.

Even the Pinal County Jail, which you cite as the worst for illegal-alien detainees, is hardly a "gulag." I suspect those political prisoners in Siberia would've felt that they were on the French Riviera if they'd been transported to the PCJ.
James Hardy, Phoenix

Hardened conditions for civil violators: As prisons go, the ones you write about — even the Pinal County Jail — aren't that bad. The problem is, putting civil violators in a gulag fit for hardened criminals (the PC Jail) is just plain wrong.

And, as you point out, that the civil violators are treated worse than those charged with serious crimes makes the situation beyond what a civilized society should tolerate.
Juan Ybarra, Glendale

Unreasonable treatment for non-violent offenders: Your story made an interesting point: Illegal aliens held in federal prisons are treated much worse than hardened criminals.

That is, the murders, rapists, and armed robbers held in the Pinal County Jail, under contract with the federal government, get to go outside, while the immigrants, held for civil violations, are imprisoned for years indoors.

The photo you ran with your story, the one showing the immigrant prisoners trying to crowd into a tiny sliver of sunlight, was worth 10,000 words.
Andrew Williams, Phoenix

You're welcome: Thanks, New Times, for being unafraid to tell the truth about the way undocumented aliens are treated by federal and local governments. It is truly unconscionable.

For you to continually tell it like it is about the situation — in the midst of so many angry and violent rednecks in Arizona — displays a particular kind of courage.

Keep up the good work. You are all that the righteous in this wasteland can count on.
Marie Vinson, Tucson

They are not leeches: We don't give aid to unauthorized immigrants for college; we don't give them medical insurance; we don't give them food stamps. But, yes, we do allow their children to go to school.

The truth, as admitted to by the George W. Bush Administration, is that "illegals" pay more into the system in taxes (for which they get no refunds) than they take out in social services. They are not leeches.

They do cost us a lot more due to non-social-service expenses, such as law enforcement and border patrol, but, again, they are not leeches. They pay in more than they take out. Just ask W.

The problem with America is that [certain] people would rather argue about pretend problems than working on the real problems.

This story is about people whose status as legal or illegal immigrants has not been determined.
Kit Carson, Phoenix

Steve knows so much: Liberal, biased media here. How do you think the Mexican government treats American citizens that are in Mexico illegally?

These illegals in America are in Shangri-La compared to how Americans are treated in Mexico. Besides, [you write about] the ones who think, in their warped way, they have some right to be in America — even though they are not legal.
Steve Golf, city unavailable

How soon we forget: We should all be ashamed of what has happened to this country, which was built on the backs of immigrants. How soon we forget.
Name withheld

The business of incarceration: I think most rational human beings will agree that conditions for anyone detained or incarcerated in the jail/prison system are unfair and, most often, inhumane.

The court system is overly complex because of unjust verdicts handed down by judges and services performed by inept lawyers resulting in a seemingly infinite amount of appeals. The United States seems to want endless amounts of people to be inmates.

The laws are written with ridiculous amounts of incarceration as punishment for violations. It does nothing to deter people from violating laws.

The conditions described for illegals in [federal custody in Arizona] are no different for the citizens in jail. The citizens are refused medical care just as often and for the same reasons as the illegals.

Fight for all these things to be changed for all inmates. When you are inside, you are all equal — imprisoned.

No one should be in jail for being somewhere that others have determined they should not be.

All this discussion [about illegal immigration] is distraction and misdirection from the real issues. It's like treating cancer by treating the symptoms instead of the cause.
Name withheld

 
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38 comments
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yahoo-FWS65UBCYJBQFDLEZBBKMYHH3Q

Okay I know the phx new times has always been liberal, but I am sick of everyone coming to the defense of illegals. When did we decide that depending on the reason for breaking the law that it's ok, so by this premise that everyone use's you know there just trying for a better life. So I should be able to break low line laws to better me and my familys situation, and as far as this where a country founded on immigration you can say that about almost any country. Most countries belonged to someone else at some point, also when does mexico's corrupt government start taking some blame for why it sucks to be there in the first place. The U.S. gets blamed for the drug killings because were all a bunch of drug attics, how about the fact that the criminals own that country, and there government is probably the most corrupt on the planet. Everybody is taking payoffs, and as far as the guns going back over the border so know i'm suppose to lose on of my rights because mexico can't control there country. Hey mexico clean up your own house before you start pointing your finger our way. And as far as the sissy liberals wake up check the stats as the amount of illegals coming across goes up so does the crime rate there not all here to be good citizens. As for the ones that are i'm sorry if I have to take the criminals and pedifiles along with the good ones i'm sorry it's not worth it. And for you people who thank they are lets see how you feel once you've been victimized by one of these so called good, hardworking, people who by the way are breaking the law. And if you wanna open the border lets just let everbody in from every country good or bad and we'll just turn this whole country into what mexico is right now, but think about it if ever we needed to run to mexico for some crazy reason you can bet that border would be closed tighter than a nuns a**ho*e. Also did everyone know that mexico's number one source of $ is illegals who send there money from here back to mexico our own money is mexico's number 1 import, what was that bull about all the tax revenue they contribute. Kind of hard for that to happen when the money does'nt even stay here.........

Mistalee
Mistalee

If I were to find a book that told me all about "Arabia," it would have been authored a hundred years ago. "Arabia" has not been a nation since the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

Idiot.

Janezoe
Janezoe

Border Checks are to keep criminals out of our USA: murderers, thieves, kidnappers, prostitutes, etc, and those with communicable diseases! Plus, more homeless and/or seasonal migrant workers who, during "off-seasons", LIVE OFFf our social security administration for general assistance money, food stamps, commodities, free medical care, aid to dependent children, and for the pregnant to get expensive maternity care for FREE! AND, America doesn't need any more vagrants or homeless. The good old USA has enough of these kinds of people, so we don't need anymore!

Mistalee
Mistalee

Another idiot heard from.

Go to the ER, tell them you're an undocumented Mexican and you would like your free maternity care, please.

Let us know how far that gets you.

Rex Reason
Rex Reason

"Go to the ER, tell them you're an undocumented Mexican and you would like your free maternity care, please. "

Are you fucking stupid? Let us all know when a US hospital turns away a pregnant woman.

Read: http://www.snopes.com/politics...

Mistalee
Mistalee

I read it. Did you?

It's six years old. Although in 2005 Medicaid in TEXAS which is the state this article addresses did not require proof of immigration status, they began doing so in 2006.

It says that the undocumented immigrants have a better record of paying their bills than low income Americans do.

And it cites EMTALA, stating that the hospitals cannot turn away pregnant women IN NEED OF EMERGENCY TREATMENT. Doesn't say they have to render the care for free.

So yes, Ignoramus Rex, go to the ER, tell them you're an undocumented Mexican and you'd like your free maternity care. Unless you are in active labor, pre-eclampsia or some other emergency condition, they will likely throw your ass out on the street, because they have no obligation to provide medical care for non-emergencies.

Raymondhhon
Raymondhhon

The original aliens: Native Americans and Mexicans in the Southwest — back before it was attached violently by the United States — used to have a name for illegal aliens: white people.Anthony Enriquez, Phoenix

Oh, please do not lump Native Americans and Mexicans in the same context...Native Americans are the original, Mexicans; NOT!!!

Mistalee
Mistalee

Given that the vast majority of Mexicans are Mestizo, you are voicing a false dichotomy.

Rosmth
Rosmth

G Prastt is a bleeding heart winy-ass cry baby who should do the time that these CRIMINALS DO IN MEXICO TO SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE, they are law breaker period and if he thinks it's bad here then he should try it in mexico if you have ever seen anything on in that country then you know our criminal justice system is a vacation to mexco's that counrty is nothing more than a shit hole right know and he just seems to forget the bottom line they are law breakers that's why they are here not just wet backs but hardened criminals not all but most and they come up here because if you get caught it's a vacation compared to mexico justiced system Cook County has more illegals then any place in the US they just fine the companies they don't deport it cost to much but pratt doesn't want us to remember that these people are hardcore criminals why do you think they go in with machine guns to arrest them, not their just wetbacks that's why ICE has them , And not just a state prison system which is far better then any jail in mexico we need to remember that these people steal your id and my id that their not just wetback they commits murders, rapes, burglerys and other felonies they are not just here because of their immigration problems. and all I know is I'm fucking tired of these cry babies like pratt wanting us to feel bad about these criminals being treated better then if they where in mexico if it's so fuckin' bad why did they come here in the first place oh ya that's right to commit crimes in a counrty where thet get treated better if they get caught we need to send them back across the wall and make mexico take them back, the illegal population in my area has gone done since SB1070, no profilling but they are easy to spot most becauce of the guys standing on the street corners looking for work if your here legally you don't have that problem, you don't worry about being stop and asked for your id who hasn't had a problem at a fast food place just trying to get dinner it would be better foe all of us if we just BRING OUR TROOPS HOME TO GUARD THE BORDER we need to tell germany and france to go fuck themselves they keep critsizing us on what we do,they want out help everytime something happens but let's see how long they last without us to take to care them, let's see how long they last without all the money we spend in their economy; without the our bases see how long they last against the terrorist without us there as a line off defense agaisnt them bring back the troops and put them on the border too stop the drugs coming in, the guns going out, this new law or what ever you want to call it wont stop a thing as long as we still have gun show shows with people walking around selling guns without any paper work being done on the sale of the weapon. their so many weapons floating around right know it's not even funny, that's why ICE is here doing what they are to keep CRIMINALS WHO ARE HERE ILLEGALY as long as people like GREGORY PRATT who have wet eyes about how we treat these CRIMINALS the problem will not go away now this is the type of writing that the NEW TIMES should have not this whiny ass cry baby shit why is it everytime something happens in the world we are the first to help but when shit happens here it is real slow in coming from foreign countries their are a few but overall it seems like the US is the only one that steps up to the plate when it come time to help out I think it's time to help out our selves for a while and let the rest help themselves and will see how how long it takes for somebody to cry for help and if illegal criminal people don't like the way their being treated then maybe they should stop commiting the crimes or just go the the fuck home we don't really need the cheap labor ya it might hurt for a little while but in the long run it would be better off for everybody maybe mexice could clean up itself an the lazy ass people could get up and help themselves for once instead off begging and giving us that look like you owe me the southwest is not the property of mexico it belong to the native americans not spain who then gave it up in grants to this rich asshole and that rich asshole it belongs to the NATIVE AMERICANS NOT MEXICO AND THE THE LAZY ASS MEXICANS WHO CRY THAT WE OWE THEM THIS AND WE OWE THEM THATit's time to change even the indiand done bt mexico city don't like the mexcans it's not my fault that spain raped them and made them lazy halfbreeds we don't owe you shit you owe yourself get up and do something for yourself then maybe you wont have to sneak across the border and you can become a person proud of who you are and you don't have sneek into my counrty we paid back the african-americans, wepaid back that japenese that where mistreated during wwii if someowes you someting go after Spain look what they did to your country when they invaded you go after france for the same thing they owe your counrty billions not us they raped and murdered tens of thousands of your people we don't owe you ANYTHING

Gerri34
Gerri34

You people make me sick. You have no idea what a real bad jail is, nor do the illegal criminals who are placed in the Arizona jails. Get the statistics of what the crime rate has been by illegals in this country. Do some real research instead of giving your opinions and stating fiction for fact. I, for one, am tired of you people stirring up rage among the illegals, as if they have every right to be in this country while it is a fact they do not. I welcome those who come legally with open arms. My best friends are among those and they are just as sick of your paper's tactics as I am. Most of those who come here illegally are looking for the free ride. Free hospital to give birth to their babies and collect wellfare, free food, practically free housing and help to pay utilities. I have sat in Del Rio, Texas and watched illegals come across, pick up food stamps, go to the store, then cross back into Mexico loaded down with goodies my tax dollars have paid for.

Rosmth
Rosmth

couldn't have said it any better I don't hate these peolpe I'm just tired of watching my tax dollars being giving to someone who isn't even a citizen

Mistalee
Mistalee

"My best friends are among those and they are just as sick of your paper's tactics as I am."

You are such a fucking liar. You have no Mexican friends. You are a racist moron and if you had a Mexican in your house you'd be counting the silverware when he left.

Terry6890
Terry6890

YOU are an idiot. YOU cry racist as soon as your mouth opens and don't even have a clue as to what you are saying. If you don't understand the meaning of illegal LOOK IT UP! YOU can't really be be that stupid! Borders are thewre for a reason. Laws are there for a reason. Sorry you are too stupid to understand that. DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIEN SCUM!

Gerri34
Gerri34

No, I am not a liar, but one obvious fact is presented here.. YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!And I am sure you are in my country ILLEGALLY!!! Go back and come in like my MEXICAN friends did. They don't have to look over their shoulder, like you do, in fear of getting caught here and losing your free ride. Even your user name tells on you so don't think you can come into our country for your free ride and stay forever. Get legal and be accepted!!! Stay illegal and anti-American, thinking we owe you a free ride until you are caught and returned to where you belong. We do not appreciate people with your attitude living in our great country so do us, and yourself, a favor and trot back across the border until you learn how to be polite and drop the attitude.

Rosmth
Rosmth

mistalee is a fuckin idiot moron asslickin peice if shit you don't even know what the fuck your talking about not all mexicans are theives just the ones that ICE has and if you don't like the treatment go the fuck home

Terry6890
Terry6890

This writer IS an idiot. Illegal aliens ARE leeches. They are also criminals. Deport them all. I would like to hear ONE VALID REASON WHY America should reward illegal alien lawbreakers with amnesty for coming here illegally and breaking our laws? JUST ONE? You won't answer because THERE IS NO VALID REASON. Illegal IS illegal--Let me spell it for you I L L E G A L. Doeas that help you to understand the meaning of illegal better?

Mistalee
Mistalee

Have you ever had a thought that wouldn't fit on a bumper sticker?

Terry6890
Terry6890

Very smart reply MORON! I'm still waiting for that ONE VALID REASON WHY America should reward illegal alien criminals with amnesty for coming here illegally and breaking our laws? You talk smack but don't answer the question? YOU really ARE stupid. I know it's genetic. YOU don't have a valid reason and NEVER will. Yet you expect America to feel sorry for you. GO HOME! WE don't want you here! I wish you were in front of me. Right now. Just for a minute or two. America is going to deport trash like you coming real soon. With any luck we will shoot you if you come back idiot.

Mistalee
Mistalee

I am home, asshole. I was born here, and my family has lived here for four generations.

I would gladly deport YOU.

Fucking pinhead.

Central Scrutinizer
Central Scrutinizer

Have you ever actually responded to something with a reasonable answer instead of a glib, thinly-veiled insult?

Rosmth
Rosmth

have you ever thought of a real name instead of a song and that's not how the Centeral Scrutinizer is to be used go read the the song and I hope FZ comes back tonight and kicks yer ass or is this a thinly-veiled insult ?

Heavy D
Heavy D

After living here for 57 years I have seen an "Arizona Dust Storm" or two in my life time. What now irritates me is the growing trend to call our "Arizona Dust Storms" an "Haboob". While other countries in the world may call it that, this is the U.S. Even more, this is "ARIZONA", not some Aribic middle east nation. I am insulted that "LOCAL" news crews are now calling it an Haboob. How insulting to Arizona. How do you think that our soldiers feel coming back to Arizona and hearing some middle eastern term that is clearly an Arizona phenomenon? Dust storms such as we have is as unique as cacti and diamondback rattle snakes. There are many, many people that I have discussed this with and most of us feel the same way. So please trash the Haboob word. I would hate to go to another channel over such a stupid word as that. We need to keep what we have. How can changing the name to "Haboob" be a good thing. Keep it was it is. AN "ARIZONA DUST STORM"!!!

Mistalee
Mistalee

Right. Lets get rid of those awful, middle eastern words.

Like "algebra," "adobe," "apricot," "coffee," "cotton," to name just a few.

"Haboob" is a term that has been used in Arizona for many years. Get over it. And while you're at it, get over your hatred of Arabs and arabic culture, you racist asshole.

Terry6890
Terry6890

Don't change the subject: Let's just get rid of all the illegal alien criminals in America. WE can DEPORT THEM ALL!

Gerri34
Gerri34

If you are so fond of Arabia, then go there. This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and if you don't like it, we would love to help you pack!!! We don't want you to be miserable with the people who love AMERICA.

Terry6890
Terry6890

But make sure you pay for your own schooling. mistalee,YOU don't deserve any more handouts illegal trash.

Gerri34
Gerri34

Now, we know what your education consists of... NOT MUCH!!! Your knowledge of the world you live in must be two countries.. MEXICO and the USA. If you can read, go to the library and ask the librarian to find you a book that tells you all about ARABIA. You might learn a nice history lesson... then, again, you might not. Don't bother answering me this time, I am through with you. Just go back to school and maybe you can run with the big boys someday.

Mistalee
Mistalee

"If you are so fond of Arabia, then go there."

Yeah, for extra credit, try to find "Arabia" on a map. Dumbass.

English is an amalgam of many languages; It includes a lot of Spanish and a good amount of Arabic as well.

If you don't like it, take the short bus back to Dumbfuckistan.

Central Scrutinizer
Central Scrutinizer

> How soon we forget: We should all be ashamed of what has happened to this country, which was built on the backs of immigrants. How soon we forget.

How soon we forget that the issue here isn't immigration, it's ILLEGAL immigration. There's a difference, and those who blur that line via omission do us all an enormous disservice.

Terry6890
Terry6890

The only ones who blur this distinction is the illegal aliens themselves. It's because they have NO valid reason to be here.

Scrutinize This!
Scrutinize This!

You do realize that "illegal immigrant" is -not- a term of law, right? Rather, it's a right-wing slur?

Terry6890
Terry6890

Question is do YOU understand the meaning of ILLEGAL? YOU mince words but and correct grammer but did you get the point? Do you understand the issue? I would think if you do that the terms used for description would not matter. I prefer illegal alien,illegal alien criminal, roach, invaders, any of those are accurate.

Terry6890
Terry6890

That's right! It should be ILLEGAL ALIEN.

cybercy
cybercy

"They are not leeches: We don't give aid to unauthorized immigrants for college; we don't give them medical insurance; we don't give them food stamps."

What rock did you just crawl out from under? This paper just did an extensive article a couple of weeks ago about illegal immigrants college students - no aid?? how about school loans, in-state tuition? As soon as an illegal has a child born here they get TANF (food stamp and cash). I can't even get that! No medical insurance? The ER's are full of illegals (ever wonder why it takes so long to see someone in the ER?). I think that's a good definition of "leech"

As to the other writer who states they the US "violently" took the southwest from Mexico. Study your history book, the residents of California VOTED to become part of the US. They WANTED to join the United States.

Gerri34
Gerri34

Who brainwashed you??? I know for a fact people in Del Rio, Texas rented houses along the Rio Grande river to Mexicans who never occupied them but used them for themselves, their relatives and friends to have addresses in the US so they could collect wellfare and food stamps. They would be there for the agents visit and that was it. A relative of mine owned some rentals along that river and I watched the illegals swim across the river in the middle of the night and saw them hide in the weeds and also saw them picked up by a car or pickup the next morning. I have personally seen what went on so don't tell me you know because I'm sure you were not there and the media has people duped into their spin of fiction. I have been told it is still going on and I believe it.

Crazymanfelix
Crazymanfelix

Read your History , it was a small portion of whites who were a very small minority at the time who wanted to be in the U S. California was invaded and taken forcibly.

Test
Test

Umm - non-resident aliens have to pay non-resident fees, AFAIK; I'm not sure about the student loans, but for certain loans, I doubt you have to necessarily show any kind of proof of residency - the banks are in it for the money, you know; and BofA does have offices worldwide (or heck, Compass, now that it's owned by BBVA, a Mexico-based bank). I bet all you really need to provide is some way of showing you'll pay it (physical collateral is still an acceptable way to get a loan).

Also, what makes you think -you- can't get food stamps? All you have to do meet the requirements - same as the non-resident alien. You have to be fairly deep in the hole, so to speak, to meet them, but that's what it's for - when you have no other option. Sure, there are going to be people taking advantage of the system, and working an under-the-table job (or cash-only business), while still collecting these benefits.

If it's such an easy life, though, you can do that too; if you don't think it's difficult, then go for it:

Claim your property and other accounts over to trusted relative, quit your job, then go file for the benefits (because you'll have no income and no property or other income/bank accounts - it should be easy, though there might be a time limit where you'll have to "go without" for six months or more, to prove hardship). After that, start an "under-the-table" job search (they're out there) or a cash-only business (heck, might as well go "under-the-table" for that too), then have your property and other stuffed claimed back to you (you might have to put the physical items in storage, and liquidate the accounts to cash, though - and if you have a house, you'll probably not want it back; the idea is to look poor in case any social workers or otherwise from the state show up to verify your eligibility). Granted, if you get caught, you'll have some 'splainin' to do, Lucy - but you could potentially scam the system for a while, if you wanted to. So why don't you? Are you chicken?

As far as the ER is concerned, have you ever heard of the term "triage"? ER's practice it (well, the ones who want to remain open, I suppose). If an "illegal", as you so bigotedly put it, is ahead of you with a major laceration vs your broken finger, it isn't because he has suddenly found a route around medical insurance.

Privilege - you'z haz it!

Now - regarding the land-grab of the southwest... You might want to revisit the Mexican-American War:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

 
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