Teaching Spanish to White Kids Is All the Rage -- Even in Mexican-Bashing Arizona

You'd better not dare speak a word of English in Ana Contreras' kindergarten classroom.

On a warm day in late October, students line up outside the door. MacBook in hand, Contreras greets her charges as they enter: "Hola, señor! Hola, señora!"

Everybody giggles as the dozen-plus kids take their places on the carpet in front of the calendar — all wrinkled khakis, damp ponytails, and white knee socks, eyes on the teacher. Contreras is the kind of kindergarten teacher little boys and girls remember forever: super-kind and just as pretty, with twinkly brown eyes and a big purple flower tucked in her shiny black hair. She takes attendance on the computer.

Cara Bennett (left) and Ana Contreras
Jamie Peachey
Cara Bennett (left) and Ana Contreras
Ana Contreras in her classroom at Squaw Peak.
Jamie Peachey
Ana Contreras in her classroom at Squaw Peak.

"Blake, Kimberly — aquí, aquí. Arriba!"

Everyone stretches. It smells like kindergarten in here — a mixture of pee, crayons, and hand-sanitizer. And it looks like kindergarten, too. But all in Spanish. On every wall, every white board, Spanish vocabulary words, aphorisms, cultural references. A bulletin board announces it's Octubre with pictures and words: lechuza (owl), gato (cat), araña (spider), and, of course, jackolanter.

After a discussion about keeping one's hands to oneself, it's calendar time. The days are counted down in Spanish.

The classroom phone rings, and Contreras answers in Spanish. She pauses for a moment, smiles, then gently reminds the front office that she's not to speak English in front of the children.

The confusion is understandable. Typically, in Arizona, teachers are forbidden from speaking Spanish in the classroom — not English.

But this is not a hippy-dippy public school in some progressive, liberal state. It's not an expensive private school in a rich suburb. It's not in Mexico. It's a middle-class public school in Central Phoenix, and the only reason Ana Contreras is allowed to speak in her oft-maligned native tongue is because when school started six weeks earlier, none of these kids spoke a word of Spanish. Today, they are nodding, smiling, and testing their accents. Making their parents proud.

In Arizona, folks may not much like living in a border state, but more and more, there's talk that our kids need to be a part of the global society. Our English-speaking kids, anyway. Turns out, it's relatively inexpensive and easy to teach Spanish to kindergartners. And it builds brainpower.

It also builds student enrollment.

If Squaw Peak Traditional Academy is any indication, Spanish immersion just might be the thing that saves Arizona's public schools.


It began one Saturday morning in the spring of 2010. Another ballet mom asked whether I thought it would be okay if she stuck a flier on the bulletin board at the studio where our kids take dance. I shrugged. Sure, what's it for?

I didn't know this mom, Amy McSheffrey, very well, but I liked her. She seemed smart. Still, I thought she was crazy when she told me she was helping recruit for a Spanish-immersion program at her kids' elementary school, Squaw Peak.

Good luck with that, I thought, smiling politely, helping her find a thumbtack.

First off, Squaw Peak didn't have such a great reputation, though it's in a great location — just six blocks west of La Grande Orange and Postino, the gourmet grocery and wine bar that have managed to do what no one in Phoenix has ever done: create a sense of community. LGO is in a pocket just west of Arcadia, south of Paradise Valley, and east of the Biltmore, a sort of no-man's land that's suddenly become the place to buy a ranch-style fixer-upper (or even a tear-down), so you can ride bikes with the kids to get breakfast on Saturday mornings and meet your girlfriends for sangria on a Tuesday night.

But from everything I knew, the folks in that neighborhood were sending their kids to Hopi Elementary in the Scottsdale School District, to the Madison public schools in North Central Phoenix, to Catholic schools, to charters. Not to Squaw Peak. The McSheffreys were the only ones I knew at Squaw Peak, where enrollment had declined so sharply, I'd heard, that they were down to one class per grade.

And Spanish immersion? Here? I had friends who'd put their kids in intensive Spanish classes at school, but that was in northern California. Jan Brewer had just signed Senate Bill 1070. Multiculturalism was hardly in vogue in Arizona in 2010.

So imagine my surprise when Amy McSheffrey messaged me on Facebook a few months later. School was about to start, and the immersion program was a go. In fact, Squaw Peak had enjoyed such great response that it'd added another first-grade class and two kindergarten sections. People were pulling their kids out of the fancy schools to attend.

Documentary filmmakers are tripping all over themselves to get into charter schools and tell those success stories; you can fill your Netflix queue with movies about admission lotteries and college-level math classes.

It's a worthy topic, for sure. Here in Arizona, we know the story well: Enrollment in charter schools has gone from almost 4 percent of the public school population for the 1999-2000 school year to close to 10 percent for 2008-09. Public schools are bleeding kids. But the truth is that what's been quietly happening with Spanish-immersion programs in Arizona over the past several years is just as compelling — and far more surprising. No one's telling the stories of little kids learning Spanish in the most xenophobic state in the nation.

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1272 comments
vilmateodoro5
vilmateodoro5

This was an inspiring article to me because of the fact that this teacher could be improving enrollment in her school. We should have more Spanish immersion schools instead of the more common French or German. It is great how this teacher improved her community by being so loving and good at her job. I want to be a teacher like this when I finish my degree.

http://kidslearningforsuccess.com/response-to-intervention-curriculum.html

tenatesgigantus
tenatesgigantus

Politics aside, learning Spanish makes sense. The top three languages of the world( number of Speakers), are Mandarin, Spanish and English. Considering English has more in common with Spanish than Mandarin, learning it makes sense. The future is global......

Kristin Iniestra
Kristin Iniestra

I've been using the Reading Amigo program to teach my two boys Spanish and it's amazing how quickly they can pick it up. I'm not in Arizona but I do think it will help their development in many ways to learn a foreign language. http://www.readingamigo.com

Dumoudan
Dumoudan

Would someone please explain to me how we will decrease unemployment by granting amnesty to some or most of the 12,000,000 people who entered the United States by illegal means?

restitutiontouscitizensfirst
restitutiontouscitizensfirst

click here to see the photos of the domestic destruction stifled by our domestic media.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthr...

"Two standards?(Kind of makes you wonder, hmmm?)

After Katrina, the media blamed the lack of response on the Bush administration's dislike of black people.

Can we then conclude from the lack of media coverage and response by the Obama administration that Obama doesn't like white people?

See Below: Where are the Hollywood celebrities holding telethons asking for help in restoring Iowa and North Dakota and helping the folks affected by the floods? Where is good old Michael Moore?

Why is the media NOT asking the tough questions about why the federal government hasn't solved this problem?......Asking where the FEMA trucks and trailers and food services are?

Why isn't the Federal government moving Iowa people into free hotels in Chicago and Minneapolis ?

When will Spike Lee say that the Federal government blew up the levees that failed in Des Moines ?

Where are Sean Penn, Bono, and the Dixie Chicks?

Where are all the looters stealing high-end tennis shoes, cases of beer and television sets?

When will we hear Governor Chet Culver say that he wants to rebuild a 'vanilla' Iowa ... because that's what God wants?

Where is the hysterical 24/7 media coverage complete with reports of shootings at rescuers, of rapes and murder?

Where are all the people screaming that Barack Obama hates white, rural people? My God, where are Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, Oprah, and Ray Coniff Jr?

How come you will never hear about the Iowa flooding ever again? Where are the gov't. bail out vouchers? The government debit cards?

More people died in these floods then from Katrina...how come the media doesn't report that?!!!!! There must be one hell of a big difference between the value of the people of Iowa and value of the people of Louisiana .

HERE'S THE REAL TRUTH:

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF THE MEDIA, AND SOON TO BE GOV'T. CONTROL OF INTERNET, CELL PHONES, RADIO AND ALL COMMUNICATION AS WELL AS THE PRESENT NETWORK NEWS ON TV. WAKE UP, AMERICANS... WHOMEVER CONTROLS THE MEDIA CONTROLS THE COUNTRY! THIS IS ONLY ONE OF THE "ARMS" THAT IS NOW IN PLACE TO ACCOMPLISH THE TAKE OVER OF YOUR COUNTRY!"

Restitutey here - this is the first domestic site that I have seen with photos - only foreign media has shown this to my knowledge. My point? Even with one language we have some real serious problems. We don't need the added divisiveness of Euro-haters who militantly refuse to learn or speak English. It is not sane policy.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst
restitutiontouscitizensfirst

This link is posted in response to the thoughts that every thing is A-OK in the USA and that the nasty things only happen ABROAD.

Coming to a location near you in the not so distant future . . . . .

http://weeklyintercept.blogspo...

For those of you who might want to return South once you realize the truth:

http://www.viewzone.com/collat...

Dead Peasant Policies are CHUMP CHANGE compared to this.

So while we distress ourselves concerning moral equivalency, moral relativism, moral turpitude, moral support, moral precepts, moral postcepts . . . . . the powers that be answer to one principle only - the bottom line of the almighty dollar (soon to be past tense) financial gain and those of us who concern ourselves with these other abstract concepts are made to be the fools and played like fools . . .

more later.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Follow the money trail to understand what is happening:

http://www.viewzone.com/collat...

Much bigger than dead peasant policies . . . .

Isn't the United States such a fantastic place? EVERYTHING IS FOR SALE IN THE UNITED STATES! Even HUMANS! Oh yes we pay lip service to sanctity of human life and that we abolished slavery - ha ha HA HA HA HA!

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Bobby, this link is the only thing that makes sense to me at all. It must be true because we know that loyalty to values is only for the snookered and the wide-eyed idealists who are ridiculed constantly - everybody else's bottom line is the almighty dollar . . . http://www.viewzone.com/collat...

"The slave is sold once and for all; the proletarian must sell himself daily and hourly. The individual slave, property of one master, is assured an existence, however miserable it may be, because of the master's interest. The individual proletarian, property as it were of the entire bourgeois class which buys his labor only when someone has need of it, has no secure existence." (Marx)

'Since the chattel slave is property, his value to an owner is in some ways higher than that of a worker who may quit, be fired or replaced. The chattel slave's owner has made a greater investment in terms of the money he paid for the slave. For this reason, in times of recession, chattel slaves could not be fired like wage laborers. A "wage slave" could also be harmed at no (or less) cost. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W... Interesting read because studies at the time concluded that the slaves material conditions were "better than what was typically available to free urban laborers at the time". (Supporting exactly what you stated in your earlier post.)

Jason "Jay" Gould, robber baron; "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." Of course it is so much easier when they are different colors and speak different languages which does not make the argument for learning Spanish and catering to silent terrorism.

Strange Days indeed.

Irisglitch
Irisglitch

The New Times does more Phoenix bashing than any other "home" city newspaper I've ever read. Thanks New Times for becoming a constant disappointment when it comes to stimulating the brain. Apparently you think you're being quirky with your racial and racy titles. I'd rather spend my time actually reading bills than succumbing to the stupidity of your writer's OPINIONS. This article just isn't good. In fact it's boring. -T

I don't so much mind that newspapers are dying-it's watching them commit suicide that pisses me off. -Molly Ivins

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

"What is the difference between slaves on plantations and blacks who blindly vote for Democrats?"

http://hillbuzz.org/2011/08/18...

notable quote from the article;

"Democrats keep Hispanics under control by pushing Spanish as much as possible, so Hispanics never learn English and don’t progress as much in society."

My personal opinion is that "Democrat" & "black" are no longer relevant. Substitute "politicians" and "people" - just my thoughts on it.

And the powers that be hate "wealth redistribution" when taxing the rich is discussed but have absolutely no problem with cutting "entitlements" that people forcibly contributed to all of their lives as part of the contract with America that was the "American Dream" - that is not wealth redistribution from those who least can afford it? The community that only speaks Spanish are equally offended by this double speak? Language is only one of the many divisive factors that prevent us from conquering evil.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Bobby, omission does not feel like respect. Most people who come here do so only momentarily so they do not get to know you - just a post here and there. Sorry I did not mean to imply majority not Euro at the beginning centuries - have not studied demographics but the minority contribution cannot be ignored/omitted or mentioned only rarely like Plymouth Thanksgiving. And the world knows the truth just for the plant food items from these American continents that are now used all around the planet - corn, chocolate, potatoes - if it were not for potatoes perhaps many of our Irish immigrants would never have come here- many more that were cultivated here for thousands of years by the indigenous peoples. Yes it was Euro people who took them back but they probably also took back indigenous gardeners to help propagate and those people's very existence was probably rarely recorded - kind of like the guy I wrote about in the other post who claimed he built the sea wall and gave no credit to the man that lifted the rocks for him. If you take a Southern accent of Euro descent person and Afro descent person - it is very similar - it is a combined culture, not strictly Euro. Cuisine is combined culture, not strictly Euro. Matter of fact, some northern Euro cuisines are considered quite limited and tasteless by most foodies of the world. Music - how many Euro descent musicians took Afro-American music, tweaked it a bit and went to the top of the charts when Afro-American music was disrespected by the culture at large? For long long time.

The other cultures here will not accept equal blame for the fact that they have not had equal access to power for long enough to accept equal blame which is easily seen by the faces of the people in the news. I haven't seen that Herman Cain outsourced Godfather Pizza jobs to China as Jeffrey Immelt did with GE 150 year old factory but of course how he functioned as Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City is not known to us, matter of fact, I have seen nothing even acknowledging his career as a bankster in the promotions of his candidacy. Still he is just one of how many Euro-descent banksters?

I agree with minority peoples also share blame for simple reason of being filled with so much hatred against Euro peoples that cannot always rationally see common sense to join for common good purpose on some occasions and for not sharing the benefits of their work with others outside their community - example like when La Raza or NAACP gets legal change for their people exclusively when others would also like the benefit but they are too racist to share the benefit. Yes I have examples - too long to research and post here right now.

I think that the people you reference back East steeped in certain culture and literature are mostly dying off and we have so many decades of re-education that only a few in private schools still have a portion of that knowledge or if perhaps they make their college degree in Literature or something like that. I think that most people enjoy multiculturalism so long as it is not threatening. So while hip-hop is beautiful and fascinating in a way it also glorifies objectification of women and other "other" as well as the gangster/drug culture which is threatening to all but romantic to our youth. The newcomers to US who do not wish to assimilate have a good point due to all the perversion in media and in practice. We are already multicultural but we need to find balance of mutual appreciation and acceptance and non-threatening. There is no way to go back. We are here now and what do we do? You and I will probably not live to see it but in the future people will be trying to recapture their Euro-roots culture just as NDNs are trying to recapture their lost practices and beliefs. There is much of Euro-culture that has been thrown away since many Euro peoples that came here also suffered extreme persecution many willingly threw away much knowledge in the hope of giving their offspring a fair chance in this brave new scientifically based logical rational nation, or so it appeared at the time. Minorities need to recognize that many Euro descent people were also slaves but just did not have the same term - like Russian serf for example and also many Euro immigrants could not bring themselves to be part of slavery due to having just escaped it themselves, therefore meaning that minority hatred of eurodescent peoples is race based and not discerning or cognizant of their truths either. Regardless, whoever owns the dialogue has the upper hand and currently the dialogue is owned by the mechareconquistamexica types because they have borrowed the "white privilege" theory originally created for the Civil Rights era. So if we wish to own the dialogue we must progress from that, inclusively.

Part of the drive of Euro-peoples towards multiculturalism is because they realize now what their ancestors threw away and they are trying to fill those voids in their lives. Personal example is seeking healing through TCM, Ayurvedic and some NDN/indigenous methods because my Euro knowledge of natural methods of healing are so long gone that I have no way to find them. Spiritually Christianity practice is seriously lacking and in a way I wonder if not flawed from the beginning since other spiritual belief systems also incorporate care of the body and seem to recognize the triune being better than Christianity does. So I would argue that people do want multiculturalism to an extent. They want to learn and borrow when convenient and retreat to known comfort when need to - they want a combination. Just as how new minority immigrants flock to take advantage of western medicine - before they learn the hard way that some traditional cures have less side effects.

I am not done but I have been here way too long and must go for now . . . .

Lydia Jane Cypher
Lydia Jane Cypher

You just can't give the whole "comrade" thing a rest, can you? Bobby, the fact is that Spanish is the second most commonly spoken language in the U.S. It was the first European language spoken here. There is a very long history of Spanish speaking on the North American continent. I don't buy the idea that English speakers are suffering to any great extent due to accommodation of Spanish speakers. Life is full of such compromises. People adapt and learn and those who learn second languages have a language advantage. For a little rational perspective, I offer this wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

cfr3
cfr3

@Dumoudan "The model predicts that while cheaper offshoring reduces the share of natives among less skilled workers, cheaper immigration does not, but rather reduces the share of offshored jobs instead. Moreover, since both phenomena have a positive "cost-savings" effect they may leave unaffected, or even increase, total native employment of less skilled workers" http://www.nber.org/papers/w16439

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Well I am definitely being censored here. My best links and comments are being disappeared somehow. I guess they really didn't care for that last observation that my personal ethic considers nattering on and on about the pleasures of the Spanish life while we have so many unemployed as very akin to robber baron Jay Gould's statement "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." Or the observation about how many non-English speakers I have observed being victimized by their countrymen or the idea that currying a Hispanophone life here in the US is not in anybody's best interest, including the fact that it is catering to a form of silent terrorism when those people adamantly refuse to either learn English or refuse to speak English when they know it well.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst
restitutiontouscitizensfirst

Cartoonist Al Capp, creator of the comic strip Li'l Abner, during the 1960s satirized Baez as "Joanie Phoanie". Joanie was an unabashed communist radical who sang songs of class warfare while hypocritically traveling in a limousine and charging outrageous performance fees to impoverished orphans.[53] Capp had this character singing bizarre songs such as "A Tale of Bagels and Bacon" and "Molotov Cocktails for Two". Although Baez was upset by the parody in 1966, she admits to being more amused in recent years. "I wish I could have laughed at this at the time", she wrote in a caption under one of the strips, reprinted in her autobiography. "Mr. Capp confused me considerably. I'm sorry he's not alive to read this, it would make him chuckle".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J...

AWWWW . . . . LIGHTEN UP!

Chill ese

Bobby
Bobby

Wow!, Comrade Cypher's back to make some more profound points on the joys of Spanish. Hey, ultimately it is a free country. Whatever.

Bobby
Bobby

It's interesting, your first statement. "Ommision does not feel like respect" EXACTLY. But it's who is being ommited, that is where we disagree.

Bobby
Bobby

"I think most people enjoy multiculturalism, as long as it's not threatening".'

Why do you think I've used the "marches of the illegal aliens" in cities across the U.S. so often? Remember what their signs read? "Go back to Europe", Kill the Gringo" This is our land",etc.and many more vile sentiments.

I have already noticed more and more Americans trying to recapture their Euro roots as they identify with them more frequently. I've asked myself, "Why now"? The only rational reason I could think of was that they took the example of many non-Europeans. The movie Roots, sparked some of this. But what really got it going was the super-pride in many non-Europeans attitudes concerning their heritage. Of course the left, so called progressives now I guess, relentlessly encouraged this attitude of non-assimilation. Then, added to it, was a radical element of the type I quoted above from places like the illegal alien marches.Do you see why I've concluded multiculturalism isn't going to work?

You see, one of the reasons I keep stating on blogs who it was that was responsible for the greater part of creating this nation, is a reaction to the constant downplaying by Hollywood media and other groups, of the role European-Americans played in this nation, unless it's a negative one. Well it wasn't just a negative one. They played a major role in creating what is probably the most fantastic country in the world. But today, there is a movement to conveniently, for polictical reasons, not acknowledge this. That is evil.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

"You see, what I'm saying is this, millions of folks that live ouside of the American Southwest, have old traditions, (go back East and see) are steeped in a certain literature, language, and customs. If these people are pressured by the ellites constant pushing of multiculturalism, that puts pressure on and changes their way of life, they won't like it. To me, it's the most obvious scenario of what will happen. Why would I say that? Because as I've pointed out in other posts, multiculturalism is not what people want. What people? EVERYONE. It isn't a white, black, brown, red, or yellow thing. "

Here is where I disagree. I am not too worried about Euro backlash in the immediate future (although it will happen) - I am much more concerned in the present about minority backlash for the simple reason that Euro peoples in this nation have for the most part been correcting themselves, adapting and changing. For example I have seen small family owned Euro businesses where they choose to hire a minority and then do not have room for a son. But the minority population - ooo la la! The Fatimas are marrying the Garcias and the Jacksons are marrying the Dominguez' - listen to the lyrics - they are banding together against Euro which is misguided in a way because this current battle is class warfare not race warfare and perhaps their rationality tells them that the satisfaction of revenge for things that happened to ancestors, either real or imagined - is what will make them whole again - or that together they wish to use the current crisis to vanquish the Euros for all time to never blight this planet again - IDK - but like I wrote before, I firmly believe that this earth has resource enough for all of us to have a good life if we would only manage it properly and without greed.

And the miracle today is that we get to have this discussion courtesy of a publication that apparently likes race warfare.

Bobby
Bobby

A final point. Why must the descendants of the people that created this nation, that spoke English for over two-hundred years, have a moral duty to compromise on anything where THEIR CULTURE is concerned?

Bobby
Bobby

By the way, don't you think it unfair, when you say that speaking Spanish is an advantage when trying to find a job,etc.? Gee, all I ever hear the past several administrations, and all the hispanic/Mexican ethnic interest groups say, as well as thousands of businesses, is this is a good thing while putting Spanish signs in government offices, stores, billboards, etc all over the place, and yet, there is no conspiracy is there? People that mention a North American Union are nutty aren't they?

The truth is, you can read thousands upon thousands of blogs on the net, where Americans are dead set against Spanish becoming a second language in the U.S. I predict it is going to cause friction(like your wikepedia article already says, as well as hate, the likes of which we've never seen. Now question. What group will you blame it on when it all comes down?

Bobby
Bobby

Alright, I apologize for the comrade thing. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I was already aware of most of the facts about the Wikepedia article you referenced. Interesting is where it says,

Throughout the history of the Southwest United States, the controversial issues of language as part of cultural rights and bilingual state government representation, has caused socio-cultural friction between "Anglo-phones" and Hispanophones."

Then the next sentence non-chalantly goes on to say, "Currently, Spanish is the most widely- taught second language in the United States."

Isn't it insane? It is to me. After admitting it's been a constant source of social friction between two groups of people, LET'S CREATE MORE FRICTION , is the natural follow-up.

There were relatively speaking, very few Mexican people in the Southwest when the so-called Anglo-phones, turned the worthless Southwest into a flowering valuable piece of real-estate, when they built water systems bringing water from hundreds of miles. Yet, the article acts as if those that had almost nothing to do with this, should be allowed their choice of language, bilinugal representation and all the rest.

That's your position also. It isn't mine. I don't have the United States of America, politically connected to Mexico in any form. It would be disaster, a big a disaster as Mexico is. So I suppose that is the jist of our relative positions on the matter. Now you can call me a racist and be happy. Have at it.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

"You would think the Spanish speakers are not required to learn English, which of course, they are." quote from Lydia Jane Cypher below.

"Although the United States has no official language" . . . from your own wiki link.

No they are not required to learn English and we bear the cost - all of us. In grade school when they still taught something we were taught that nations like China were doomed to failure because they had so many different versions of Chinese languages that were unintelligible to each other. Nobody in China screamed when they unified the Chinese language (or if they did both of their kidneys suddenly became very valuable) - and look at them now! European leaders have recently stated to the world that multiculturalism is a failed experiment. (Maybe that is just what domestic news reported to us just to increase the tension so they can herd us into their FEMA camps when we finally blow?) IDK - just sayin' . . .

Common sense known from thousands of years of history does not equal racist.

Lydia Jane Cypher
Lydia Jane Cypher

Origin of the word, "COMRADE"

Middle French camarade group sleeping in one room, roommate, companion, from Old Spanish camarada, from cámara room, from Late Latin camera, camara. First Known Use: 1544

Wayne Michael Reich
Wayne Michael Reich

True this is- my blogs have been bagging on these guys and their bitchtastic Editor for months, and thankfully for my purposes, they just keep topping themselves in stupidity again and again.

This rag used to be worth reading, now its only good for hamster bedding.

Respectfully,

Wayne Michael Reichhttp://waynemichaelreich.blogs...

restitutiontouscitizensfirst
restitutiontouscitizensfirst

I agree it is evil to some extent - complex issue. How to find balance? As a society are we overcompensating in order to make amends? I've noticed that with some individuals, sometimes if they are obsessing over something and in a rage about it - doesn't seem that anything helps them to heal and move through it and move on - sometimes anything you do just helps them to stay focused on the negative thing that has them obsessing and rageful - so I finally realized that with some people the best thing you can do is just move past it yourself and just don't even address it because they can't get over it - just help them to redirect their focus on other primary issues that need their attention. Perhaps these cultures are having the same problem and need to just put it aside and focus on the bigger problems - it's not just blacks losing their homes, not just whites losing their jobs, not just Mexicans experiencing higher crime rates. Regardless, for self-preservation it behooves immigrants to learn English - seen too many brutally ripped off by their countrymen who claim to understand the language and the laws. Having our children learn Spanish will not help them in the job market since they are not native speakers and to have even our President tell us to learn Spanish is an insult to Mexicans - saying they are to dumb to learn the lingua franca? Or catering to a form of soft terrorism by a politicized group who refuses?

For me the primary issue is jobs for citizens, jobs with career paths. Not jobs for black citizens or Mexican citizens or white citizens - ALL citizens. It is insanity to give jobs to foreigners over citizens. That makes our government insane as well as immoral and evil to allow this to happen. Going global is like NAFTA and multiculturalism is a lie intended to get us there - if and when we get there - globalism will not honor diversity - there wants us all to be beta worker ants or discarded, genocided, eugenicized. We will not be allowed pride of place - we will need to be able to move to where the jobs are - OK maybe even exciting when you are young but misery when you are old.

My 90 year old father had more appreciation for various cultures in his upbringing than some children do today. Mexican children look at our mixed-race marriage with wonder and their parents disapprove. We were excited to move into a neighborhood filled with mixed couples like ourself but we found it to be the worst neighborhood full of the most hate and crime. The couple that bought our property were also mixed and they also quickly sold and moved out of the neighborhood. I am aware of several marriages mixed with Mexican and some of them are not doing so well because the minority victim identification is being used as a weapon against the mate. It does not make for harmonious marriage nor does it make for harmonious society.

There is a difference between respectfully pointing out respectful way of considering another and hostile incendiary insulting way as in title of this article - it is not designed to gently lead and correct - it is designed to fuel a fire and is not socially responsible journalism.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Just for today it feels like the most fantastically evil country in the world, but it's not the country, it's the upper crust. Notice how here - Feedback from the Issue of Thursday, August 18th, 2011 - they just could not find any of the logical reasons we presented worthy of putting in their cliff notes for busy people?

Yes, I don't know the answer. But we are here now. What is the answer? Teaching Spanish to babies is not an answer except for the future of what you predict.

Bobby
Bobby

I think your'e complicating it too much in my opinion. Those so-called minorities that are anti-European Americans, aren't motivated by esoteric reasons. That's saying these people are stupid, or naive, something I sure don't believe. Rather, they are interested in one of the most common human traits there is, POWER, and all that power implies. It's as simple as that, to my mind.

Lydia Jane Cypher
Lydia Jane Cypher

Hmmm. The "people that created this nation?" You mean the English? The English and the French? The English and the French and the Native Americans? The English and the French and the Native Americans and the Germans and the Italians and the Czechs and the Poles and the Romanians and the Swedes? Which people? Bobby, the country was "created" by all kinds of people and yes, it is true that we are all bound together by English, which is indeed, at this moment in human history, the current universal language. I'm fine with that, believe it or not. For example, I'm a big fan of symphonic metal which is mainly a European subset of heavy metal music fronted by soprano lead singers. There are Dutch, German, Finnish and other symphonic metal bands, and they all sing predominately in English. Why? Because everyone generally understands it and learns it in school. This is where I get embarrassed as an American - because we are so frigging egotistical and ethnocentric that in general, as a culture, we don't see the value of other languages or bother to learn them - even though it would benefit our ability to learn our own language and math and social studies and geography, and would expand our minds beyond our little provincial ways of thinking to our own benefit. It's not healthy or wise to think you're the center of the universe. It is unbalanced. There is no one culture in the US - there is a mix of regions and cultures and neighborhoods - and I love that. No one is suggesting we abandon English, only that we expand our consciousness to learn other languages - and doesn't it make sense to learn the one that's right here under our noses first? As far as all those blogs you refer to, the fact is that we have a lot of looney toone people in the world. If 500,000 people were all in agreement that we should jump off a cliff, would that make it a good idea? The future of America, as well as the entire planet, is multilculturalism. And just as in nature, that is a good thing, in my view. I like the world in living color with all its diverse peoples and fashions and languages and lifestyles. I don't want to live in a cookie-cutter world where we're all homogenous. I think that would be a nightmare. Yes, the world is having growing pains and it's not just the US, it's the clash of all these diverse people and the urge of so many to try to control everything. It may be messy and imperfect, but over time it will work itself out. It wasn't that long ago that African Americans and women didn't have the same rights as Anglo men. People of privilege cling to it and seldom share willingly. But change does happen over time. I would love to see the day when everyone speaks English and Spanish and has their choice of two other, ADDITIONAL languages to study throughout their public school experience.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Yes, about those blogs - they are dead set against Spanish becoming a second language but in fact it already is. Lydia's wiki link shows what some of us have been saying about people not learning English . . . "Many factors indicate that Spanish in the United States is healthy. Living an exclusively Hispanophone life is viable in some areas because of continual immigration and prevalent Spanish-language mass media, such as Univisión, Telemundo, and Azteca América."

Sorry but I still think that it is rude to speak another language in front of someone who does not have that language. If the someone is an intruder - not so much. Not to mean that everybody has to learn everybody's language but that to learn the language of the land should be requirement for living and working there end of story plus it is only common sense for their own well-being to learn it. Plus when the children are able to adapt and become interpreters for their parents it can be a load of trouble. These kids end up having too much control over their parents and many of them run wild as a result. I understand that in the case of refugees that are older - they may be too old to learn another language and in these cases exemption should be made. Therefore I understand and accept that citizens who are exposed to others refusing to speak English in their presence feel rightfully disrespected and I do not automatically consider them racist. It is just a logical human behavior response to being ostracized in that manner. But still the worst is knowing what they are saying and knowing that it is not good and it is directed at you because they think you have no skill in their language. Of course that is just sick and pathetic behavior on their part - but it still lowers my quality of life when I am exposed to it and I do resent it and I wish these people would get a grip on themselves and their pathological cultural inferiority complex - I did not do that to them and I do not deserve to pay the price.

"Living an exclusively Hispanophone life is viable in some areas . . . " Also please note that people do not have to escape to Mexico anymore to hide, as in former CA governor's "love-child" mama - she came to Phoenix area to hide from the paparazzi. (yes I know she is not Mexican - but she is still able to blend in here and hide.)

Re: your post below Bobby, 2nd paragraph - my father, who has a gift for gab in multiple languages, several of them in the Latin persuasion (Spanish, Portuguese, Italian) was on Houston St in NYC a couple of decades ago and he had a bumper sticker on his truck that advocated English only. He pulled into a gas station for help with his flat tire and when the Hispanic attendants saw his bumper sticker they shot out the rest of his tires for him rather than fix the one. So it is not just the Southwest where this issue has been controversial for quite awhile. Even though he spoke to them in their language, even though he is brown enough - perhaps they considered him a traitor? So imho this has been highly flammable problem for decades nationwide and it is not going away.

Bobby
Bobby

Amazingly relevant and deep points that you make, but utterly true, as well. If there is one thing that is going to sink this nation, real fast, it's the constant unrelenting, marxist type instigation of continuing multi-culturalism. How many days has England burned? How many days were cares burned in France? The plan of the North American Union, is a reality, and there are enough stupid Americans, as well as traitors in Congress that will allow it. Then, Americans will answer to a supra-Congress, a kind of European Union, in this hemisphere. Can you imagine, having your fate controled politically by some Mexican drug lord influenced politicians from Mexico that will belong to that body?!.

Lydia Jane Cypher
Lydia Jane Cypher

Hrobster, I've mostly dropped out of this discussion, but since I still receive the comments, I will reply to you thusly: I look deeply every single day and if you knew me personally, that would be very apparent to you. What I was trying to "lighten up" was the negativity and personal attacks in some of the comments that have been posted here. Until people can speak their minds in a way that addresses the subject without making personal attacks on the messenger, all of this remains nothing more than arguing for the sake of arguing and goes nowhere. Moreover, the online, anonymous nature of the medium makes it all too easy to engage in rude and disrespectful banter that I truly hope would never happen in person if we were sitting in a cafe and talking eye-to-eye. If we don't self-censor our worst impulses (and believe me, when strangers make disparaging remarks to me, I feel them too) then we simply escalate negative dialogue and end up perpetuating problems. I believe your remark was sincere but lacked awareness of the stream of comments up to that point. And I do agree with your comment that there is an element of placating the masses with entertainment and fantasies of consumerism that acts like a drug to keep people from taking any collective action. Ciao ... and have a good day :)

Hrobster
Hrobster

You know, honestly, after reading your replies to Cypher and other's, including myself, I'm yielding this forum to you, because you are about the most aware person, who's writing on this stuff, I've had the pleasure to read. But, one warning, caution, piece of frirendly advice, DON'T BURN YOURSELF OUT, IT ISN'T WORTH YOUR HEALTH OR HAPPINESS.

Hrobster
Hrobster

Maam, the trouble in this whole country is that things are always "lightened up". That is exacty what the elite want--distractions, and endless amount of them, while they destroy the nation for their benefit, using Wall Street and the courts. I wish you'd look a little deeper, but it's ultimately up to you.

Hrobster
Hrobster

Now, that was funny, really funny.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst
restitutiontouscitizensfirst

Where exactly did I call you comrade or communist? I think you are getting me mixed up with someone else, not just here but perhaps on some other page or WOW! Light is right. As far as RIght Right goes, not me said the little red hen. Guess you haven't been reading much of my posts. I'm done with both of them - right and left and have said so repeatedly. Done with R-listers. Done with D-listers.

Yup, you are still working, you can be as light as you want. Millions of CITIZENS aren't working and your MSM is a bunch of sold out presstitutes but just so long as YOU YOUR PERSONAL self is still working I guess that is all that counts and therefore you can honk about your flawed ideas as much as you wish. Maybe when your retirement is stolen, the "entitlements" you have paid into all your life get redistributed to the exact people who are trying to destroy the dialogue by stating that wealth distribution in the form of increased taxes on the rich is unfair but taking your $$$ that they borrowed all these years is fair. ?????

FA la la la la la

oh yeah! The Thunderbirds?

Fa la la la la!

If you don't read my links - how can we dialogue? This is the only thing that makes sense to me . . .http://www.viewzone.com/collateralx.h...

Now you post lots of definitions but when I do it's "snarky and rude?" Ah but this noun so fits your contribution to the real discussion going on. But your 2nd job as gummintroll is about to disappear due to :

IBM unveils chips that mimic the human brainhttp://www.computing.co.uk/ctg...

US bankrolls 'shadow Internet for dissidents' abroad

http://www.activistpost.com/20...

yupyupyup - it's always "abroad" - like those drones and the DU and the Agent Orange

NOT.

Decent jobs would solve alot of these problems including this argumentation going on right here but it isn't going to happen is it?

Lydia Jane Cypher
Lydia Jane Cypher

How unfortunate that you choose to be snarky and rude while I try to lighten things up a little. You chose to call me "comrade" as an insult, apparently because you think I'm SO liberal that I MUST be some kind of Communist and therefore some kind of enemy. I posted the etymology of the word so that you could see it is much older than Communism. The fact is that I'm more of a Libertarian any day than I am a Communist, but as has become typical of the Right, you would rather insult, mock and denigrate than have a civil discussion or even debate on the subject. For the record, Cypher is my ex-husband's name and that of my children and grandchildren - thought to be of German origin but changed at some point during the immigration process long ago. My maiden name was Worrell, about as English as they come. As for you two, as usual, you still hide behind your screen names where you feel free to be as boorish as your want to be. Were you to type my name into your search bar you would see an actual human being, a real flesh and blood person who is essentially an open book, on purpose. I stand behind my thoughts and opinions and would gladly discuss them face to face in the spirit of honest, civil debate. I will tell you one thing for sure. I have been working with staunch, mostly male conservatives for years in the legal community who know me well and recognize that our political opinions are very different - yet love me all the same, as I do them; I have been the "office hippie" for many years. What is different about that environment and those men is that THEY are gentleman and practice a warm, gentlemanly courtesy that appears to be unknown or forgotten to you two.

http://dictionary.reference.co...

restitutiontouscitizensfirst
restitutiontouscitizensfirst

She still has a job. She does not know what is most important. http://www.thefreedictionary.c...

Noun1.cypher - a mathematical element that when added to another number yields the same number0, nought, zero, cipherdigit, figure - one of the elements that collectively form a system of numeration; "0 and 1 are digits"2.cypher - a quantity of no importance; "it looked like nothing I had ever seen before"; "reduced to nil all the work we had done"; "we racked up a pathetic goose egg"; "it was all for naught"; "I didn't hear zilch about it"goose egg, nada, naught, nil, nix, nothing, null, zero, zilch, zip, zippo, aught, cipherrelative quantity - a quantity relative to some purposenihil - (Latin) nil; nothing (as used by a sheriff after an unsuccessful effort to serve a writ); "nihil habet"bugger all, Fanny Adams, fuck all, sweet Fanny Adams - little or nothing at all; "I asked for a raise and they gave me bugger-all"; "I know sweet Fanny Adams about surgery"3.cypher - a person of no influencenobody, nonentity, ciphercommon man, common person, commoner - a person who holds no titlepip-squeak, small fry, squirt - someone who is small and insignificantjackanapes, whippersnapper, lightweight - someone who is unimportant but cheeky and presumptuous4.cypher - a secret method of writing

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

"The slave is sold once and for all; the proletarian must sell himself daily and hourly. The individual slave, property of one master, is assured an existence, however miserable it may be, because of the master's interest. The individual proletarian, property as it were of the entire bourgeois class which buys his labor only when someone has need of it, has no secure existence." (Marx)

19th century wage slaves vs. slaves in US at the time - "records show that slaves worked less, were better fed and whipped only occasionally—their material conditions in the 19th century being "better than what was typically available to free urban laborers at the time". Just like you said Bobby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...

Robber baron Jay Gould. After hiring strikebreakers, he said "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." (from above link.)

To my personal ethic, nattering on and on about the joys of Spanish speaking life is the moral equivalent of the above when we have so many unemployed.

Bobby
Bobby

Very good, carry on.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

"One language is a unifying force and even nixes the attempts of these dirty politicians to take advantage of division on the language basis, which they sure as hell haven't been beneath doing" Biggest touche' here. I have seen so many predators on people who had no English - their own countrymen are often the absolute worst. Regarding your below post - you are not wrong - it took a Russian to write a book using our own US census materials, to teach the US public how many citizens died of starvation during our last Great Depression - something our public school history books managed to omit.

Bobby
Bobby

Thank you for being open. I really do believe that language has an enormous effect on people, both socially and psychologically. If I didn't believe it, I honestly wouldn't have given this article a second glance. Yes, I was bothered by the title, but afterall, it's the style of this newspaper, provocative, the writers are nothing if not provocatuers. It was the message that bothered me more. I simply don't see it as hleping to solve anything in this country involving human relaltions, to the contrary. One language is a unifying force and even nixes the attempts of these dirty politicians to take advantage of division on the language basis, which they sure as hell haven't been beneath doing. My first language wasn't English, and I remember how differently my friends would see me when I brought them home and they heard my mom and dads accents.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

No we have not had problems at all. We agree on almost everything including the culture wars. Just it is so strange in this day and time to have people be unaccepting. The Mexicans with their hearts in Mexico are the ones who can't deal with our marriage or our offspring. Oh they will be really friendly if it is just hubby organizing the playdate but once they see me they are like lizards - an extra lid comes over their eyes and they are done with the whole family - that is how prejudice they are. It hurts in this day and age that people will inflict such prejudice on children but that is how they are and this is what we have invited en masse into this nation without correcting them at all in this manner. One time we were at a rest stop in Missouri and at the rest stop were some real prejudice people but they were not familiar with our look so they did not know who to be angry with. The black people were angry with us for being mixed and so were the whites - it was funny (because they did not attack us) but they did really want to attack us but they realized that we were both "other" so they were stuck just knowing that they should be outraged by our mere presence together but not knowing exactly how they should be outraged. A friend of mine just sent me internal memo from union (postal) about how the workers are not getting it. Oh yes, they get it alright. It's just that the unions have been playing ball the corrupt elitist way for so long that they have left so many hard feelings that members don't know what they should bother to fight for - more hell on earth the union way? We need solidarity as a people of a nation with one language to discuss what we agree is wrong and what we agree to do to fix it. Just focus on what we have in common for once. We are all facing low wages, joblessness, unaffordable basics of life, losing homes, transportation . . so do we trample each other like animals or do we remember what once was known - that humans are above animals in behavior choices. In recent years it seems to me that the animals are shaming us.

Bobby
Bobby

I'll say this. You sure are a profound essayist. I'm sorry you've had problems in a mixed marriage. My cousing is married to a Mexican woman, long time now, and she is completley Americanized. It might be because even her father and mother, now in their eighties, were also born here. In any case, she is a better person in all ways than many of our other anglo-saxon,etc. relatives, for sure. In any case, I don't believe intermarriage, etc. is any real problem compared to what the so-called leaders of this nation have in store for it. It's insane, watching the two-party that's really one party system play its games with the American public. I love the one about solving the jobs problem, that both the democ(rats) and republi-(cons) constantly babble about, while not informing the American public, that besides not caring about illegal immigration, the administration still allows, 120,000 people a month to enter the U.S. A MONTH!! It used to be 150,000 people a year!! So that will definetly help our youth and others with jobs, won't it? It's so insane the way the elite, confuses and abuses the public, that if there is a hell, I wish them a long time in it.

Bobby
Bobby

I could be wrong, hopefully. Who really knows what the future holds.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

True probably for most immigrants to US regardless of legality. We are naiive as a nation to conditions in other nations and I really think that many contemporary immigrants had just as good a life in their home country as here - it is the chance for their offspring to achieve POWER because in the US people of power have proportionally higher personal resources to average wage slave - astronomically higher than anywhere else on the planet. CEO, CFO - it's all good.

Bobby
Bobby

Again, restitutiontouscitizensfirst, please don't think of me as trying to patronize you in any way. I honestly do believe you to be a profound and deep thinker on these issues. It's just that I disagree on certain matters with you.

Bobby
Bobby

But I do respect other people. I have never attacked anyone, but have always tried to help most people, if it was in my power. I'm just stating in these blogs, what I believe to be serious realities, that we probably won't escape. It would be a nice world, if we could all live like the various cultures that went through space on the starship Enterprise in Startrek. But I don't see it happening and I'm not ready to blame it on the attitudes of European-Americans alone. There are all kinds of other cultures here, that are going to have an equal blame for what comes down. I can just tell by the attitudes of many of them. Sorry if my attitude/beleifs have disappointed you, siince you obviously are a deep thinker and profound person in so many ways.

Bobby
Bobby

I disagree again. This nation, as every other nation, is a product of the culture that created it. The money system, the language, the literature, the politcal structure,etc. There's no escaping for millions of people I'm afraid. Nor do many of them want to escape it. I claim your argument is flawed, because in it you implied that the MAJORITY that took part in the creation of this nation, was someone other than European-Americans. You see, what I'm saying is this, millions of folks that live ouside of the American Southwest, have old traditions, (go back East and see) are steeped in a certain literature, language, and customs. If these people are pressured by the ellites constant pushing of multiculturalism, that puts pressure on and changes their way of life, they won't like it. To me, it's the most obvious scenario of what will happen. Why would I say that? Because as I've pointed out in other posts, multiculturalism is not what people want. What people? EVERYONE. It isn't a white, black, brown, red, or yellow thing. It's been showing itself to not work in every nation that tries it. I just can't imagine it working here, in the long run. It's like I claimed in another post, Americans simply are the kind of people, probably more than any other in the world, that don't like to have things forced on them that makes them change. Doesn't matter if it's the metric system, soccer,(the whole worlds number one sport) or language. I'm just trying to be realistic about what I already see happening.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst
restitutiontouscitizensfirst

I agree with you but the fact remains that omission is a form of judgement just as omission can be a form of lying; a discarding of the validity of, a denial of their hard work and once these people read you they will also discard the rest of what you say and European descent Americans are barely the majority now and will not be in the near future. We are here now. We need solutions for now. The reconquista argument has many lies and flaws but also many truths and quite enticing. Just as we say - oh but that was 400 years ago, that was 200 years ago - the European majority and the European history is not what we have today, just what is left of it. People are more inclined to respect it and see the value if you also respect them and their value. Yes I want English to be the national language and no more catering to the linguistically impaired/deficient - it is not cost effective - nationally we have done this argument ad nauseum. Plus I fail to read why you say my example is flawed - please explain.

Bobby
Bobby

Wait a minute. If you want to return to the antibellum period, you would find that most European-Americans, did not own slaves. Most people in the South worked on small farms and it was hard work. In the North, European-Americans worked in the dirty, unsafe, and unsanitary factories of the Industrial Revolution. I'm talking about millions of people. No OSHA safety laws, no minimum wage, no minimum work week, no medical care,etc. If you read the conditions these people worked in, they lived and worked as little better than slaves. In many instances their conditions were worse. Slaves in the South, did not all live as depicted in Hollywood movies. There are many accounts showing that many slave owners were not cruel. They had to talk and live and move through life with these people, afterall. The Slaves of the South, basically enriched the very few, relatively speaking slave owners. You had to be rich to buy slaves. I don't understand you point about the overseers and their descendants. It's a faulty argument. As I said, most southerners didn't own slaves. Of course slavery wasn't an enriching experience. But you have represented it in a very narrow way. I don't know why you take my post as denying someones identity. It doesn't. I feel, in fact, that it's simply neutral. The vast majority of the United States was created by European-Americans--millions of them, and it wasn't a picnic. This was once common knowledge, and is still absolutely factual. It needn't be a judgment about other people, as you are apparently making it.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst
restitutiontouscitizensfirst

Bobby , Bobby , Bobby . . . . you can round up to the nearest dollars and cents but you cannot apply same principle to your concept of "majority." Let us visit a cotton plantation in the deep South a couple of centuries ago. Perhaps there are 900 African-American slaves working the cotton and 35 overseers ruling by superiority of weaponry. Who produced the most work? Do you think like the builder of the sea wall example I gave above - that who-ever has the power to claim their version of reality in the history books is the one who produced the most work? Next I will propose that despite inferior food, housing, medical care and extreme adversity I think that it is highly probably that those 900 slaves have far more descendants than the 35 overseers. The descendants of slaves have built a whole culture around that experience and they aren't dropping it. The descendants of the overseers? Probably most of them do not even know. Furthermore, we now have scientific research proving that traumatic emotional experiences do alter gene expression and that alteration is passed to offspring. Now whether or not this continues in perpetuity or if over a period of time the condition corrects itself we do not know. Likewise an argument could be made that the overseers had superiority of weaponry and nothing else - perhaps to survive slavery intact requires superiority of physical, mental, emotional and spiritual attributes.

The attempt to include the contributions to the US by minority populations in public school textbooks is not just feel-good Marxism but an attempt to engage a humongous group of people who totally reject the knowledge of "the man" starting in kindergarten in the hopes that they will become productive vs. destructive citizens. If you deny my truth I am just as likely to hit the Ignore button and never get your message. If you deny me my identity, my contribution, my history, common sense states that the rest of what your present must be flawed as well because the very foundation is incorrect. I personally do not think that is necessarily the case but most people will just dismiss and move on and never take a second look.

Bobby
Bobby

By the way, I think you overestimate the influence of the "religious right" on Republican politicians, certainly the rank and file Republican voter. Many of them think of the religious right as nothing more than mental cases. But really, if it is a democracy, then why did the public in California for instance, reject gay marriage, but Hollywood and the left, are doing everything they can to make void that vote. When prop. 8, gay marriage was voted against, and by a large margin of black voters, and some hispanics, and Mormon groups, the left and gays showed their true colors and went literally berserk. They defaced Mormon churches, (I am Catholic) and physically attacked people by the hundreds. It proved to me that many leftists and gays, are not the gentle people they claim to be, that only want "their" rights. It's a complicated issue, and many Americans simply don't want a gay person teaching their kids for fear they will influence them, and other AMericans aren't ready to constantly see men kissing men, or women kissing women in public. Is that entirely unreasonable?

Bobby
Bobby

Again, I agree, but like that guy, most people don't care about the Golden Rule where their self-interests are concerned, so we need a rougher solution--the law.

Bobby
Bobby

"are two different things."

Typing fast screws up not only my spelling but my grammar as well.

Bobby
Bobby

No, I meant knowing the Golden Rule and doing it, is two different things. I don't believe most people, including Mexicans, operate with the Golden Rule, especially when their own best interests are at issue.

Bobby
Bobby

I realize that, but most points are made in a general way. Yes, there were even some Mexicans who fought in the Revolutionary War against England. There were some Mexicans that always took part in helping to create the United States, since some were always here. Some Chinese helped to build some railroads. Black people helped the Southern economy. I'm arguing in generalities, and not every specific instance or exception is taken into account when one does that, including a scientist. When a general statement is made, it doesn't enumerate every thing but it states the larger part. That's how all reasoning is done. European-Americans, were mostly, for the large part, those that created the United States. Beer names,(Busch Brewing company, Adolph Coors, Miller, Pabst, Hamms, kindergarden, hot dogs, hamburgers, the design of houses(mostly English except in Southwest,)skiing, golf, polka music --all traditions way over a hundred years old and brought from Europe.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

better link; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...

"The Golden Rule has its roots in a wide range of world cultures, and is a standard different cultures use to resolve conflicts."

Simon Blackburn states that the Golden Rule can be "found in some form in almost every ethical tradition."

Taking our jobs is not the following the law of reciprocity - the Golden Rule known throughout recorded history. Stealing our identities in order to take our jobs is not Golden Rule. Stealing from our social safety net that US citizens paid into for their own hard times and old age is not Golden Rule. Just because 2 governments agreed to sanction this and make it OK does not make it OK according to rule of common sense universal law of reciprocity. This means that both governments are criminal governments. People who take advantage of the stolen fruits offered by criminal governments are soul poisoned ignorant or not.

If I were President, each and every company that received bail-out funds and then took their jobs offshore would have all their assets seized as well of the assets of all CEO's, CFO's and their passports and put in prison declared enemy of the American people. So WE paid to keep those jobs in existence, and we paid to keep those jobs in existence on our soil so the fact that absolutely nothing has been done and even our JOBS CZAR Jeffrey Immelt has just done same with moving division of GE to China - IN YOUR FACE CRIMINALITY!

So at the rate things are going we will be identical to Mexico very soon if not even less. So it will be interesting when the jobs are gone, the social safety net is no longer there to steal from - will the illegals still be so interested in this land?

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

oh duh - I am reading too fast - I thought you meant an author named James - somehow skipped over your NT reference - kind of like Dickens (was it?) that wrote "charity begins at home and justice begins next door" - which is Biblical principle but put in easier language by a writer many centuries after.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

huh? Don't know that quote. I got the term double-minded when I decided to read the Bible and finally learn the basis for the culture I grew up in.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Wow I so disagree with both of you and here is where we come to the poisoning of our education system and how little boys learning to play the violin just can't get with playing "Mary Had A Little Lamb" because they are that aware that young (thanks to media saturation and changing culture) and we have to adapt to them and not in the ways that have been done - so we are not producing violin players. I don't even want to go off on education but there are ways to teach these things and get the kids engaged and for some reason we adults and educators of this nation stay stuck on stupid -you know, stupid is trying to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results. They can stick the technology and have a bare room and teach more in so-called turd whirld nations. Anyways I am convinced this is also all on purpose.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

I disagree. We really are not presented with much choice and we always have to choose the lesser of 2 evils. Recently I heard radio talking head (one that usually makes me sound crazy because I start talking back to the radio and screaming and cussing LOL) stating that if we don't do this or that we would end up with a 3rd party as if such an event would be the worst thing in the world. Hey I welcome 3rd, 4th and 5th parties. Truth be told that we do have a 3rd party and more but they have them so marginalized that they don't even bother to count them when they open their big fat mouths and this alone shows them for the lying liars that they are.

I am not well informed - just trying. There are people I could learn much from but they don't bother with places such as this. Don't know where they are so relegated to internet long as I can afford it.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Yes they both suck. I figured out a long time ago that with our current technology we could have true representative democracy but the problem is getting people truly informed about the issues. The Citizen's United decision seemed so great - I am waiting for those people to be felled by the same weapon that they made.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

ummmm . . . . some of my ancestors helped to build this nation that were not considered part of the Euro-majority. I know other people who tell the same - they were just omitted. Like a descendent of NDN's I went to school with who told of how his ancestors helped to build the local church and then were not considered good enough to sit inside. . . . cured them of Christianity. It's kind of like a man I knew who said he built a sea wall for his property but it turned out that he did not build it - he hired a huge retarded guy to build it. So the man would say do this and the huge guy did it. So who built the sea wall? I felt like the man lied to me when he said "I build it."

Bobby
Bobby

Yes, Comrade, the people that created this nation--European-Americans. I've given you examples before, it's all on the internet, history books right up until the left took control of the school system taught this. It's not fantasy. This nation was a finished product a long time ago and European-Americans created it. The whole world knows this comrade. Why are you not clued in?

Bobby
Bobby

Comrade Cypher, try if you can, to understand the MAIN POINT I'M MAKING ON THIS LANGUAGE ISSUE, which we have often veered away from. It is this: When have you ever known Americans as being the kind of people that care to learn a new language? In fact, my English teacher in high school, used to berate us severly and citizens in general because we wouldn't even bother to speak, and write English correctly. That's why Americans use so much slang, they are essentially language lazy.

Now Comrade, the main point here is that if Spanish is constantly pushed on them, all they are going to do is get angrier and angrier. They won't care and they will become critical and upset with those that are forcing something on them that they don't want. It's one of the things that makes Americans feel free, and indeed, it is what distinguishes this country from others. Just think about it--how resistant Americans are to changing their ways, and it'not hard to see what will happen with the language thing.

Bobby
Bobby

"Mlticulturalism is the wave of the future"

Oh really comrade? Is that why former nations like Czechoslovakia are now the Czech Republic and Slovakia, two nations. Is that why Yugoslavia, is now some 17 separate nations? Is that why Scotland wants to be free of English rule,etc. Is that why Ireland wants the English out? I see comrade, tell us more about the joys of multiculturalism that European leaders have admitted is failing.

Bobby
Bobby

I am not a Republican fanatic by any means. For example, when I recently got together with my sister, I told her that since the Republicans want to take away Social Security, we must be Democrats now, since we want this when we retire, because we have already paid in a bundle. On the other hand, the Democrat Party of today, has moved so far left since the time of Kennedy, that if Kennedy's party were around today it could only be called conservative. It is the Democrats that claim they are for unions, but they have abandoned them. They fight for illegal aliens that do not belong in this nation. They claim they are for environmentalism, yet believe in unlimited immigration, both legal and illegall. I have talked to many leftists on these topics, including one of the columnists Stephen Lemons. His attitude on immigraiton is typically far leftist, and when it comes to environmentalism, if it conflicts with illegal aliens, then the environment can go to hell as far as he is concerned,etc. The Democrats are hypocrits of a differerent type than the Republicans. The Democrats claim to be anti-war, environmentalist, etc.etc. Yet Obama has expanded the wars, and the Democrats environmentalism is fake. Now one thing can be said for the Republican establishment, at least they admit they're for big Corporations, Greed and couldn't care less about the environment,etc.. I'd rather have honesty, no matter how evil because I will know what to do, than lies and duplicity.

Bobby
Bobby

I'm sorry the quote from James should read, " A double minded person must not expect to receive anything FROM God. Not for God.

Bobby
Bobby

"Or is it something that I am failing to see? "

I don't think so. Your'e too well informed for that. Do you know what IT is for all of us including govnernments? It's a double mindedness, an unwillingness to decide what we want. I'm not a big person on religion, but I have often read the letter of James in the New Testament. There he says, "A double minded person, must not expect to receive anything for God!! Oh, how we as individuals and society as a whole, need to bring back that concept into our lives. If we have massive illegal immigration, not only from Mexico but from every other nation in the world, why do we? Because people around the world can se that the U.S. is a double minded nation. We don't like the policies of certain politicians, yet when it comes time, we vote for them again, out of some fear or something. Double mindedness.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

If more practiced the Golden Rule there would not be so much hatred against them - like the beer stealer in the store.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Yes I do. If they could bother to follow what is commonly considered healthy rules of behavior for society, following the Golden Rule would help both sides but I have read their literature and they reject it because it originated in Europe according to their rewritten history of lies which I need to do search for this p.m. and post below here. http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/The_Golden_Rule and they propose a new moral code ethnocentric to them but I could not grasp exactly what it was, and that is supposedly because I have too much European in me, (mystical like Christians saying that if you are imbued with the Holy Spirit you will suddenly understand the mysteries of the Bible with absolutely no help, background or training at all - you will just suddenly understand). Their new ethnocentric supposedly resurrected from their noble past indigenous ethnocentric moral code apparently has not been codified into something that I can find to read yet and their own literature states that it is race-based on the indigenous bloods running through all of the native peoples and breeds of the American continents - so they are somewhat inclusive but it is still all for La RAZA and everybody else can have their throats slit.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

This one is for you Bobby;

"The Republican Dream

In the 30s Republicans dreamed of destroying Franklin Delano Roosevelt while dismantling all social, banking and labor programs that were helping the country recover from Republican-born Depression.

Eighty-years later, Republicans dream of destroying Barack Obama while dismantling all social, banking and labor programs implemented by Democrats over 80 years that prevented the country from falling into Republican-born depressions like the 30s.

Republicans have always despised “safety-nets” because they believe only free-loaders and parasites partake. The unemployed stay in that condition only when granted support, they claim, and their favorite slur for a food-stamp recipient is “welfare queen.”

Everyone should know by now – Republicanism is an illness, not a cure.

Enough rant; it has long been determined the root cause of this century’s pending Great Depression – the final product of Republican politic. But what’s it like living the Republican dream (as opposed to the American)? It is now time to understand how to survive; past time to analyze why – as if no one knows except media bent on establishing false equivalency.

Let’s take ourselves into the near future to maybe get assimilated.

Republican America is one of no unions, declining wealth, dwindling resources, poor to no services, and dead or nearly dead industries resembling salvage yards. High interest rates are charged to the few approved. It’s a nation of freeways deteriorating to gravel pocketed by privatized toll booths, of collapsed bridges, and flights reserved only for the very rich. It’s a country of urban blight, one-third homeless, rusting factories, and boulevards boasting tattoo parlors, casinos, and check-cashing scams. Businesses are boarded on Main Street, skyscrapers crumble, while millions of homeless live on streets lined with empty houses.

Survivors in Republican America are forced to compete for vanishing commodities, resulting in riots, looting, theft, and murder. It’s simply the natural progression anyone could have predicted. With only scarce supplies and no mechanism to enforce rations, what other aftermath could result? Rightwing America is a very unsafe, unstable, and violent place where even the upstanding must compromise morals to survive and put food on the table. It deteriorates to the classic primitive contest – survival of the fittest where only the most ruthless bring home the bacon.

Republican America flaunts unpaid, non-credentialed teachers, run-down schools, vacant colleges, and volunteer firemen and police. There are no unions; they’ve been decertified and busted. There are no student loans. Only a fraction seek higher education – and then only from wealthy families.

Textbooks are written and published by Christian right organizations. Subjects discarded are evolution, labor history, climate change, and sex education. Inserted are Judeo-Christian heritage and how devoted the founders were to Christ and church. Ronald Reagan is deified more than the framers, and “American exceptionalism” is the daily lecture.

Republican America, like Walker’s Wisconsin, restricts voting to citizens with government-issued photo IDs and “active” bank accounts, but makes certain these are almost impossible to obtain, especially in Africa-American and Latino districts.

Only white, evangelical precincts are favored. (One can catch a glimpse of future voting by observing Republican legislation in states captured by the Tea Party in ’10.)

In Republican America, fundamentalist Christian “morals” are legislated while crime skyrockets to historic levels. The more rightwing laws, the more crime. Gun violence runs rampant; still gun owners are protected. In fact, every citizen is encouraged to carry a weapon, and the right to carry concealed firearms is ensured federally across state lines.

Gay marriage is banned; all former marriages and state laws legalizing same-sex contracts are annulled. Indeed, gay sex is criminalized [like it was in the good ol’ days]. Thus, gays are again routinely victims of violence and unpunished murder. (The ultimate transgression is “justifiable” in the name of Jesus to eradicate evildoers, they assert.)

Abortion is banned. Roe v. Wade is overturned. (Meanwhile, wealthy Republicans send daughters, wives and lovers to Europe, Asia and South America for the “procedure.”)

Republican America is a police state. Except the “police” are no longer local, but poorly-paid federal troops. Major violence erupts first in urban centers, then spreads across the country. The Republican government feels compelled to suppress the outbreaks, then eventually suspends all civil liberties and elections.

Republican America, in the literal, is Third World.

Republican America paves the road to revolution, for which true libertarian Tea Partiers achingly lust so they can try out their precious weapons on “undesirables.”

The religious right will never believe Republicans brought America to its knees. Neither will characters like Karl Rove, Grover Norquist, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, and Frank Luntz. But, of course, they are all major contributors to the fall.

Question is – How are we going to genuinely survive? Really?"

http://www.21cpw.com/global.ht... Loren Adams 8/14/2011

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

No I just felt that she is not thinking clearly through this and is not representing herself well enough including that she has insufficient data (easy enough for all of us to be in that position) and therefore is relying on old knowledge that is no longer true in some cases, using what she thinks is a logical progression of common sense to defend her position - but she does not know - and the "logic" does not always lead to the truth as we are dealing with humans with complex factors and needs and you and I both know that in some examples she simply has not experienced it and her "logic", and that of many other Americans including policy makers is either flawed or intentionally in denial - combination of both depending on who we are dealing with.

I am probably a comrade as well and do not realize it. I know that none of the political theory supposedly in practice now does actually work for the vast majority of people at this point in time and I know that when walking in the 'hood I need an equalizer and so do most other people. In this case the illegal Mexican has their community, their vast numbers who have been politicized in the same way and to give up their "equalizer" and forge something new is terrifying but I would prefer that they consider this before the bloodshed rather than after, when we US citizens are no longer between them and the corporate oligarchs. How can they not admit that they have been given unfair advantage over other immigrants and US citizens themselves and instead believe that they are superior? Do they think that these holes in our system were left by happen chance rather than malignant design when citizens have been fighting for fairness for years and nothing is ever done or even if any law is passed by a majority they are repeatedly overturned? Why do they refuse to see that in a matter of time their fate will be the same as ours? Or is it something that I am failing to see?

Bobby
Bobby

Millions of Mexicans don't even bother to learn English, and you think the Golden Rule might help them Comrade?

Bobby
Bobby

I take it back, you really are a comrade. It's all over your writings. Oh I would also include a Mexican Nationalist. The suggestion was made by restitutiontouscitizensfirst, that your are hiding behind something, and I believe that's evident also.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

Citizens United? Yes I have also written about how multi-nationals can "pray" to a court for restitution from their human victims. It is appalling and ties into the artificial intelligence scenario too for the corporations that own these things. http://www.newswithviews.com/B...

The way I have always viewed this situation is from the perspective that Russia was the melting pot of the ancient world, US was melting pot of modern world. The clashing of cultures resulted in what kind of government that we don't want here? But we are getting it, OMG are we getting it. Of course other nations/lands have had huge ebbs and flows of migrations over the centuries, our descendants may well be writing about the effects of the Mexican Hordes as opposed to the Mongolian Hordes.

I would not call this particular underclass uneducated. Somebody has gone into that vacuum and filled it with a very hostile very dangerous meld of thoughts that bears the clear and distinct markings of things that we have seen before and never did wish to see again, in the madrassas of the barrios and favelas. The markings are so clear that we do not think that this is an accident of human nature. No, it appears to be social engineering with the purpose of intentionally setting these two populations against each other and I see no one from any other side willing and able to dialogue about this and make better solution - which in and of itself does point to an inferiority of intellect and a superiority of bloodthirstiness and shallow thought with little regard to the future when their same choices will be applied to them in turn.

Some of the rage passes boundaries of race, ethnicity and class. If you have white hair you may know what I mean. We need to militarize our white hairs because it is open season equal opportunity to openly rage on our white hairs in the store, on the street, in the car. I love the white hair who is still able to push back and make the offenders think twice about picking on a white hair. I "get" wanting to move to Sun City now. Sadly many of them are also losing their homes to current events from what I hear - don't know anybody covering it hint hint hint. Culturally we are so far astray from what is good when we do not protect and nourish our fragile and differently abled - a huge part of what made the USA "better." However many cultures have cast-off their non-functional humans and to them that choice was the civilized one. Apparently that is what we are returning to by a vote of the masses with their day to day behavior on the streets of this nation.

I think that at this point in time you have your numbers skewed. I think that we have decades of culture, from Hollywood too, that rationalizes illegal behavior of the underdog and therefore the numbers of people who are getting over any way they can when no authority is looking is vaster than the humble hard working - I seriously believe that.

Lydia Jane Cypher
Lydia Jane Cypher

And BTW, I agree with you about the Golden Rule. I thump that drum all the time and indeed, if we could just do that, all the rest of this stuff would take care of itself.

Lydia Jane Cypher
Lydia Jane Cypher

Whether you like multiculturalism or not, it is the wave of the future. Isolationist reactions to the blending of people and cultures and economies happens all over the planet but is eventually subsumed by reality. New generations of children learn together and play together, develop personal relationships, marry, families blend and change. You cannot go back to the past, my friend. The future always presses forward. Problems occur and have to be addressed on a case-by-case basis. The example you gave of the guy helping himself to a beer without paying is not about multliculturalism, it's about lack of police presence in low-income neighborhoods and an angry uneducated underclass. The underclass comes in many colors and cultures and yes, they can be angry and dangerous. But for every individual story of that kind there are dozens more of humble, hardworking people working two jobs that they get to on bicycles, creating community systems to lend money for emergencies, provide daycare and cook food at home to feed themselves and get their kids an education. I can only wish the average American had half the work ethic of most of the Mexican immigrants I know - documented or not. I'm not worried about the rights of artificial intelligence at the moment - I'll leave that to the sci-fi writers as its a very popular subject. (I just saw Blade Runner last night - did you, too?) A bigger concern to me is the Supreme Court ruling that corporations are "persons." Corporations are a much bigger problem for the future than our fellow human beings. Gotta get to work ... have a good day!

Bobby
Bobby

I don't see anything wrong at all with keeping family and culture. I had a friend when I was growing up, Carlos Dominguez, a kind of Mayan looking guy, and his mom and dad were the nicest people,etc. and talked Spanish at home. etc. But that isn't what I'm trying to address on this forum or to Lydia Jane Cypher, or whatever her name is.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

I agree with what you say here mostly. I don't like multiculturalism. I like the Golden Rule better - seems more universal to me. We have had a clear progression downward away from cultural sharing and learning outside structured environments. There was much more of it going on years ago, even 70 years ago, than there is now. We all have clouds over us. Some hate us for having to be here. Others feel fiercely private for other reasons. Some feel superior to us and don't want to learn and share. Most of the immigrants who come to the US now do not wish to assimilate. I am torn on this issue because I have seen that assimilation into the US culture at large does cause dissolution of the family and I respect wanting to keep family and culture. Many people have their religion tied to their everyday moment to moment activities much more than the average US citizen does and we have current battles raging in some spheres as to what right do we as a nation have to separate them from that - the biggest being the contention that Islam and US citizenship are not compatible.

What you or I would love to see in our educational system - well we have to reality check ourselves because it simply is not going to happen. Our educational system is just as corrupt and poisoned with inappropriate influences as everything else it seems. I suppose we will have to wait for a techno-geek to bring us the Universal Translator from Star-Trek. With the advancements being made in thought mechanics I wonder if the nasty stuff will get translated or edited by the droid.

We are very close to the battle where the artificial intelligence demands it's rights and some believe that it is happening already and point to recent events as proof that artificial intelligence is already at war with us. So perhaps in the near future we will be arguing about citizenship rights for the droids - "I think, therefore I am" ? ? ? So we need to seek the universal principles underlying and we need to get it right.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

I know. Thanks for sharing . . . . I think. Policy makers need to know these facts of life that we live everyday. As an American woman - it seems that men from other nations all want to try and rape an American woman - they seem to have less respect for us than they do the women of their own nations - they think we are all sluts - and they think they can rape us and then tell everybody it was consensual and get away with it. Mexican men too. I don't know if this is an extension of the hatred of the US or rape as an act of war or if this is what they mean when they say they want a piece of the American pie - I really wish there were some place to figure this out safely but it sure does make me less tolerant of any foreigner after experience with this type behavior and I wish that the multi-culti advocates would recognize these ugly parts of it.

Bobby
Bobby

I'm not surprised about the incident with your dad, because I could enumerate dozens just like it. One example. There is a liquor store owner, George, a Japanese-American guy, one of the nicest people you'd ever meet in your life. You know, if you didn't have the exact change for an item,etc. he'd let it go. Well, one day I'm in his store talking to him about Japan,etc. and a rough Mexican cholo type guy,(by looks) comes walking into the store, passes us and goes to the freezer. He grabs a beer and proceeds to walk out with it. George yells, heh wait a minute buddy, then he looks at me and says that fool is always causing trouble. Then he says, you gotta pay for that beer. The Mexican guy stops at the door and turns around and says, George, this beer and your whole store belong to me, it belongs to Mexico. At that point George just tells him to get lost and don't come back or I'll call the cops. I swear to you, this is a true story and I've seen this bullshit attitude over and over from some Mexicans. It's unreal.

restitutiontouscitizensfirst!
restitutiontouscitizensfirst!

IDK but I've been told; Canadians view US citizens going there in same manner as US citizens view Mexicans coming here. They don't want NAU either - it always bugs me to have same initials as Northern Arizona University! None of us wage slaves like the NAFTA on either side of the border. We need to find what we have in common and what we agree on and build from there. I don't understand Marxist, Zionist, Communist - or Republican Democrat either - they are so far detached from the real world mostly it is like they are babbling nonsense and how stupid are we to pay for babbling idiots to screw up our lives? Are we such a flawed species that we cannot devise a governance system that will last uncorrupted and is not miserable to live with either?

 
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