A church official tells New Times that the survey is "inaccurate" and that international membership is "in the millions." Such a bold claim seems unlikely, especially considering the relatively tiny size of the new Phoenix Ideal Org in a metro area containing more than 3 million people.
The survey's author, Barry Kasmin, admits that the sample size was too small to accurately represent small church groups like Scientology. The margin of error is a whopping plus or minus 300,000, he says.
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"Of course, you can compare even the highest possible number with their membership claims," Kasmin says.
In other words, if the church has a maximum of 325,000 adherents in the United States, it's unlikely to have "millions" worldwide. And there is the downward trend to contend with.
Independents such as Tom Martiniano and Linda McCarthy of Phoenix claim Miscavige is destroying the church from the inside. The couple, both in their 60s and former senior members, left in the 1990s. They believe the reports that Miscavige is "violent," though Martiniano — who once worked with Miscavige in the church's paramilitary Sea Org — says he never saw the religious leader hit anyone.
Martiniano and McCarthy say they oppose Miscavige because he runs the organization with too much of an eye toward money — and has restructured coursework and "OT" levels to extract more cash from adherents. Martiniano calls Miscavige a bully and a tyrant.
Under Miscavige, Scientology has become "as radical as the Taliban is," he maintains.
Martiniano says he quit the church not long after getting into an argument with Miscavige.
From the church's point of view, people like Martiniano are "perverting" church scripture and Hubbard's teachings. Martiniano was expelled from the church for twisting Hubbard's procedures and "refusing correction," Pouw wrote to New Times, adding that he's "anti-Scientologist and anti-L. Ron Hubbard."
Yet in talking to Martiniano, a portly insurance adjuster and Vietnam vet, he comes across as devoted to Hubbard's ways. He says he believes strongly in the power of "e-meters," the mystical thought-sensing machines that the church produces and sells for thousands of dollars each. Having studied the "OTIII" material, he says he's accepted the Xenu story and "body thetans" as a reasonable part of the religion and has seen "proof" that Hubbard's methods work. Martiniano even claims to treat people in independent Scientology-counseling sessions and that one woman working with him and a homeopathic physician was cured of breast cancer.
Such far-fetched claims don't make independent Scientology look much different than the official version.
A woman who looks to be in her 20s, with a Bluetooth on one ear, is raking the rocks in the xeriscaped yard of the L. Ron Hubbard home. She appears annoyed when asked by a reporter whether the home ever will be open to the public.
"No, that's not going to happen at all," she says. "It's a private historical home."
Scott Ruth says this contradicts one thing Bob Adams told him, which was that "tours" would run from the Ideal Org to the home.
Pouw, the church spokeswoman, writes that the woman was correct. The church, which in 2005 finished a meticulous re-creation of the way the home looked in the 1950s, when Hubbard lived there, has no plans to open the home to the public. If that's true, it would be a relief to neighbors in Camelback Village, who have fought to prevent such tours.
However, one Scientology website suggests that plenty of members still will tour the home:
"Today, Scientologists visiting Mr. Hubbard's Camelback home learn of his adventures and challenges in discovering and identifying the human spirit and in the founding of the Scientology religion. It is here that Scientologists trace the research trail of L. Ron Hubbard that culminated in the discovery of the human soul."
Pouw also says the church is "confident" it will reach an agreement with Ruth.
The fitness trainer, when told of Pouw's e-mail, says he's surprised to hear that the church still is willing to work with him. He's delaying eviction as long as possible until he finds an inexpensive new space in Arcadia (an unlikely proposition).
But Ruth's not optimistic that the church will treat him fairly. So far, he says, the church's shady reputation has been bolstered by its dealings to establish the Phoenix Ideal Org.
Only a complete moron would buy into this bs.How can you turn a blind eye to the fact that L.Ron Hubbard himself once said that the best and quickest way to riches is to start your own religion. He wrote science fiction people! This should have been your first clue. You need to be as smart as Nicole Kidman these days, not as stupid as Katie Holmes.
Our office hired a scientology team to restructure it a few years ago. They promised the moon and delivered nothing. We paid them 10,000 and they visited our office exactly twice including the first visit. We had to sue them but they know all the loopholes so they kept us tied up in court for years. It took 5 years for us to get our money back. They were smug, arrogant and completely without ethics. They defended their lack of service and breech of contract to the end. Fortunately for us there is still justice in the world. But how many others never recovered their lost lives and monies to scientology?
L. Ron Hubbard was a mediocre science fiction writer. DIANETICS and SCIENTOLOGY are just more of his science fiction story telling. I can't believe so called intelligent people buy into this cultish crap.
This article has been highlighted on Yahoo's main page for 5 days now.Seriously?? There is no reason for it to be a main page highlight for THAT long. They bought a building, we get it. Move on to more important new now, ktnx.
It should be on Yahoo every day until they close the cult location. People need to know about this very dangerous cult. Another person just died last week as a result of the cult's Narconon front group. They took a young man off his meds, as they wish to crush psychology and psychiatry and utterly oppose them, and naturally the person went berserk and killed his father. They dumped the man on a bus without his meds, and he was meeting his parents who we to pick him up. One dead parent and you're bill was $10,000 for a week of nothing. Not the kind of cult you'd want to get mixed up in.
If ANY other business or group had purchased this property, it would not have raised an eyebrow, and this article would not have been written. Seems like the New Slimes newspaper is going out of its way to malign a group of people for no reason other than a misguided attempt at "informing" on a subject they are clueless and incorrect about. I feel sorry for the business owner, but if this article is correct (which is dubious) it sounds like the previous owner was in foreclosure. He might have had to move regardless of whomever the new owners were.
Just a simple question: Why do the words "church" and "religion" appear over and over again in this article (or any other) about this bunch of cosmic freaks? You might as well declare Star Trek episodes as "historical documentaries" and "I Love Lucy" episodes as scripture. Ridiculous!!
You might be right, but have you ever read a book on the subject by L. Ron Hubbard? There are many in the libraries around town. At least if you didn't like Scientology you would have made up your own mind about it instead of reading crap on the internet.
I have read alot about Hubbard and Scientology. I was born in Hemet California where they first started. These people are not religious or even sane. They are very dangerous to those they feel have maligned them, and are not above assassinating these people. Johngota, it is you that are misinformed about Scientologists. I studied them for about three months to get a good idea of what they are about, and I assure you that they are not about what they profess to be. Get back to the 'drawing board' and report back to us when you are actually informed, and not just ill-informed.
All Illegal aliens should be allowed by Obwama to apply for work permits but only while they are outside the United States in their home countries. This type of program (guest workers) has worked very well for many years in economically successful places such as Switzerland, Singapore to name a few. Once their work visa expires they must immediately leave the country. If the females become prgnant, they are immediately returned to their home country. commit any violation of ANY law (even "J" walking) and they are deported. If they attempt to re-enter the US illegaly, they are automatically placed on a list of permanently banned from entry into the US. Are you with us?Just enforce the Immigration Laws and treat all people who want to enter the US fairly. Don't show preference to those that entered illegally. Justice for all?
Just stop allowing a tax deductions for contributions to religious organizations. And while you are at it, stop giving people tax credits and deductions for having a dozen kids, often because their choice of superstitious religion is some guy wearing a funny hat who doesn't think people should stick a condom on their dick before having sex or the descendants of a flim-flam artist who started a cult so he could justify have a dozen young women having sex with him
One of the Phoenix chapter of Scientologists was recently seen on Craigslist soliciting people's help with getting an airline ticket for a female he met online who lives in Nigeria so she could come to the US.
Thetans have clearly damaged his common sense.
Are they any worse than all the other crazy religions out there? People do some crazy stuff in the name of religion.
To all you pro-active types, you can petiton to have Scientology abuses investigated by the Dept of Justice. Won't take but a sec: Go to http://wh.gov/40s to sign the petition.Some people have had trouble signing it, so here's some help:1. click the following link to sign up for a whitehouse account to register You DO NOT have to fill in the zip code You do not have to give your real name if you don't want to. People from all countries can sign.2. Check your email to confirm your registration.3. Then click the link (http://wh.gov.40s) and sign the petition.FYI" To get this petition looked atm there needs toi be 5,000 signatures. Time is up on Oct 24. There are currently 3,000.Go for it.
Let us resolve this issue once and for all by doing what is right.Should immigrants who chose to go through the normal immigration process and those who cross the border illegally be treated the same? How is that fair and just to one and all?
This doesn't create good will or a good image for Scientology. They can afford to pay him his $175,000 and they should do it.
Scientologists are FREAKS, I worked in a scientologists company, I thought who cares they wont push their "religion" on me, guess again. It was an insurance company in Newport Beach and they did involve everyone in the scientology courses. It was a very wierd business, boarder line unethical. Needless to say I didnt last long. They want the members to purchase very expensive clases to become better at life and go through clensing exercises where they do the sweat lodge type saunas for extended lengths of time while taking high doses of naicine. I think Tom Cruise has taken too many of these saunas, damaging his pea brain which explains his public outbursts on talk shows. They all think they are smarter that the general public since they "clear" words, more like a grammar school english class. The best advice is stay away from them and their loonatic antics. Lotter freak
This is a cult no doubt. I the 1970s in california they were there recruiting with young pretty women door to door preying on people who were having problems, divorce, financial, emotional, These recruiters would take people to there centers and say they were going to help them be more assured of themselves that entailed shouting at ashtrays and simoustanouly picking ash tray up , then talking into tin cans dont remember why, then the final was a course called dyanatics written by El Ronn Hubbard who no one at that time had seen for 20 years on a yacht in south seas OK what else you have for sale. This course at that time was 1500.00.Dont know what there core values are cannot believe that tom cruise and other actors support this. Surely there are better choices world hunger, phoenix homeless, St. Jude Society and a lot of others instead of getting colon flushes and whatever else .
What is racist about this law?Is this law Racist? Does it specify brown people?Are the people who agree with this law racist?Are those who want this law enforced racist?The law says nothing of little "brown" people but it explains what is illegal entry. It's not very hard to understand. Why is this law "broken"? Why can it be selectively ignored?Illegal alien includes all people who entered illegally, could be Croation, Russian, Chinese, Irish, Canadians and yes even Mexicans. No one single race or people is referenced in the law. Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact; has committed a federal crime.Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.These people cost Pheonix and surrounding cities hundreds of millions to support the education, health and welfare of these illegal immigrants. A landscape worker paid by cash (no taxes) and his wife (a stay at home mom), have been here for 16 years and had 7 children born in the US. Who do you think paid for her medical bills???
i only liked this comment because this idiot must have posted a comment to the wrong article. dumb ass...
What in the hell does your comment have to do with this article? Not everything in life revolves around immigration, legal or otherwise. You are showing classic signs of delusional paranoia and need help.
Again, dumbass, this has nothing to do with the story at hand. Get off your high horse; at least put such comments on stories about immigration, not on a story about Scientology. New Times, you should block this moron.
So the mormons can buy up half the east valley and nobody seems concerned, but the Scientologists buy an aging "gym" and people freak whats up with that.
Well, as crazy as the Mormons are, they are not a dangerous, abusive, cult like Scientology is.
Mr. Stern you did a great job writing this...one of the best on the Scion cult that I've read.
Great article on this manipulative cult that Ron the madman created. They blackmailed the IRS into gaining tax-exempt status...read about it. They do go after their detractors. If you hook up to an E meter and discuss upsetting things in your life over and over, eventually you won't get as upset about them...you get used to them and your heart won't beat as fast. It doesn't "work", It doesn't make you "clear" . It does make you an idiot if you think this wacked cult is doing anything positive for you. I never cease to be amazed at the otherwise very intelligent people who believe in this nonsense.
Terrific article here, Mr. Stern. You really did your research! I hope the good people of Phoenix let all this information soak in for the long term because this is just the beginning of issues the community is going to have with this organization and they need to be armed with these facts.
I also think Mr. Ruth needs to take Wilmot, Fairmount Square LLC, The Church of Scientology of Arizona and the bank to court for collusion and fraud. He also need to place a fixtures lien on the property.
This purchase took much advance planning and when Ruth's lease was signed, there is a good chance that the church was already in in the planning stage with the bank and Wilmot, who probably arranged to lease the property to Ruth to cover some of the months it was going to take to close the truth deal with the bank an the church. The fact that Wilmot is still a tenant and not under eviction shows that he was given a deal where he could stay once the deal was sealed. Where there is smoke, there's fire.
Great article. I started Scientology in Phoenix in 1975. Wish you'd have done this article back then, so I could have saved myself the large detour. But the Scientology people who work in Phoenix, were always nice by me. Dianne Koel and her husband Les were both at the Phoenix "org" when I went to it as a parishioner back in 1975. Late in 1975 I went on myself, to join the lifetime Scientology staffer religious order, called the Sea Org, and then spent 27 years in all in the Sea Org. I know and worked as a subordinate to both Linda Martiniano and Tom Martiniano, during their years in the upper echelons of the movement also. Glad Tom is so candid about Scientology. Excellent overall article. Phoenix has several other even more senior ex Scientology officials. My thoughts are that if official Scientology would just listen to these long term wisened independent Scientologists! Official Scientology ought to listen and learn something! I'm a born again atheist, so Scientology isn't my choice of activity. But I'm hopeful, like the excommunicated Phoenix staff member who said he hopes the movement fixes itself, and lets him rejoin. I hope official Scientology does some kind of internal reform, and lets all these independent Scientologists rejoin without any fuss, IF they want! Official Scientology has an intense organizational structure, all covered in detail by Hubbard's staff policy writings. It'd be nice to see official Scientology lower their prices, stop their harassment, and stop the nasty disconnection excommunication. - Chuck Beatty, Pittsburgh
What a waste of so many years of your life! If you think the "independent scientologists" make any more sense than the official COS, then I'm sorry but your brain is still fried.
I am a born again atheist, and any soul centered group or individual practice I consider a wrong step today. I thought there was the possibility that "soul" abilities which multiple mystical groups profess can be improved, were legit, since they all try to sell the same product: a) out of the body experiences b) ESP powers, and minimally transcendent experiences, etc, etc.
The spiritual rackets will continue.
I'm a Martin Gardner fan, his "Fads and Fallacies" book is what fully debunked Hubbard for me, but that was unfortunately too late, I know.
I was sitting in the RPF "co-audit" room one morning, in LA, at the "complex", and I suddenly had a large brain fart, and realized that all the "past lives" memories that I'd been making up for years, were indeed likely all just my imagination. 27 years too late, alas. Better late than never.
I think independents are good in that they tend to strip out the most foul and abusive features of Scientology, but agreed, they do stick to what they believe about the soul, and about "body thetans" and about the soul's supposed powers, which on that score, they're not much different from other mystical and religious groups who believe in soul or God like ESP powers.
Scientology reminds me of a Family Guy clip on Joesph Smith: "Oh, hey an old Con Ed bill. I mean, a new testament of Jesus Christ"
It's funny, the religion of the Mormons and the Scientologists are similar in that BOTH believe in the myth that a space ship will come and bring them away from this planet to another at the "end of times." How did that happen? Only the Ancient Sumerians have a similar belief but they're all dead and must have missed the boat, errr I mean spaceship.
Close ExpertShot, but Mormons don't believe in any spaceship hauling people off. They believe that those not going to heaven, i.e. you and I, will burn like "the stubble in the fields" come judgement day. No space ship. I was a Mormon by birth, and lived the religion for the first 15 years of my life. I have read the book of Mormon and the Bible, cover to cover, dozens of times. I have a better understanding of Mormon religion than nine tenths of the people that profess to be Mormon. But don't feel like you have to pray for me as I am fully recovered from Mormonism and Christianity and enjoy thinking for myself instead.
If you want to stop this lron nonsense, boycott all scientologist owned busineses. If they don't have money, they can't afford lrons 'religion' and you get a nice building that can be converted to other uses....
Lunatic Ron Hubbard said "Never fear to hurt another in a just cause" and the brainwashed cult members consider their activities a "just cause", even if it means a breach of contract. I had a scientologist landlord who cut off the air conditioning to my office a couple months after I moved in, effectively breaking our lease. When I hired an attorney to settle up with him, he went beserk, even though he had attained scientology's highest level, OT 8. I put several thousand dollars into renovations, but he did not care because cutting off my air conditioning was a "just cause". These people are conmen and fraudsters.
All Illegal aliens should be allowed to apply for work permits but only while they are outside the United States in their home countries. This type of program (guest workers) has worked very well for many years in economically successful places such as Switzerland, Singapore to name a few. Once their work visa expires they must immediately leave the country. If the females become prgnant, they are immediately returned to their home country. commit any violation of ANY law (even "J" walking) and they are deported. If they attempt to re-enter the US illegaly, they are automatically placed on a list of permanently banned from entry into the US. Are you with us?Just enforce the Immigration Laws and treat all people who want to enter the US fairly. Don't show preference to those that entered illegally. Justice for all?
WTF has this got to do with the Scientology story. New Times, please, block this racist idiot!
Interestingly, this crackpottery has been here since Phoenix was a small city, before it grew to the metropolis it is now.
The author of this story has a very low IQ.Pretty much everything he says here is a lie.In reality Scientology is awesome and amazing and will make all your dreams come true. And lucky for the author Scientology does increase IQ.
IC
