Horne and others also suspected Kathleen Winn, in charge of outreach for the AG's Office. I knew Winn from before her involvement with Horne.

It was Winn who gave me a heads-up about the 2010 primary-watching party at Rezzonico's house, precipitating my interest in Horne and his effort to deny Thomas the GOP nomination.

I know nothing about Flynn, save from what I've read in public records. I know Richard as a contender for the Democratic nod in 2008 for county attorney.

Attorney General Tom Horne with Horne's outreach director, Kathleen Winn (right), at the Arizona Republican Party 2012 election night event at the Hyatt Regency hotel in downtown Phoenix.
Ray Stern
Attorney General Tom Horne with Horne's outreach director, Kathleen Winn (right), at the Arizona Republican Party 2012 election night event at the Hyatt Regency hotel in downtown Phoenix.
Assistant Attorney General Carmen Chenal, the employee Horne's "having an affair with," according to the FBI.
Facebook
Assistant Attorney General Carmen Chenal, the employee Horne's "having an affair with," according to the FBI.

None of these individuals, including Winn, was a source for the July 2011 column on Chenal.

So it's interesting to see the result of that column: a doorstop of official interviews of AG employees, signed statements from the interviewees acknowledging they could be fired if they do not cooperate, and a search for my cell-phone number in all state phone records.

(One two-minute phone call to my cell came from the desk of an AG employee in Tucson who claimed no knowledge of the call to investigators.)

Horne gave Hinchey permission to search employee e-mail accounts, and she combed through online comments attached to my article, knowing that some of them had come from within the office.

"I later learned," wrote Hinchey in her FBI statement, "that AG Horne . . . recruited a group of persons to blog in support of Horne and Chenal and question . . . the article."

Hinchey added that this information was confirmed by Horne and Rezzonico.

Apparently, Horne made an online comment on my column under the name "Arizonatruth," mentioning a memo that had been sent to me by Rezzonico, one I had not published or quoted.

When I spotted the comment, I responded, noting that the commenter must be in the AG's Office.

"Mr. Lemons," Arizonatruth replied, "what makes you think these posts are coming from inside the office? Again, proving my point that you will say things that have no truth or facts to back it up."

Through Rezzonico, Horne requested a meeting with me for an off-the-record conversation, which we had on July 19 at the First Watch restaurant in downtown Phoenix.

I cannot divulge the content of our conversation because of an off-the-record agreement.

Hinchey's investigation dragged on for several months.

Incidentally, there is nothing illegal about a government employee talking confidentially to a reporter. The information I was seeking, via my public-records requests, did not relate to a grand jury or criminal investigation.

In fact, all the information in the original July 2011 column came from public records, much of it from Chenal's file with the State Bar, which a judge since has partially sealed on the request of Chenal's lawyer.


Meg Hinchey's investigation revealed the AG's Office to be a viper's nest of backstabbing, gossip, and resentment. And the investigation uncovered potential illegality unrelated to its initial purpose.

For instance, Assistant AG Mike Flynn, like many others, told Hinchey he believed Kathleen Winn to be the leak.

He opined that Winn might have "narcissistic personality disorder" and offered that he had heard a rumor of an affair between Chenal and Horne in a passage redacted in the AG's release of Hinchey's case file.

According to Hinchey's report to the FBI, Horne stated in a meeting, with Hinchey and Bistrow present, that "he had been told by two women previously that Winn had said she wanted to have sex with him, but he didn't believe that to be true."

Apparently, there was some rivalry between Chenal and Winn for Horne's attention.

"He always defends her," Chenal told Hinchey. "The only thing Tom and I have fought over in 30 years is Kathleen."

In her interview with Hinchey, office legal assistant Lucia DeVernai attributed salacious quotes to Winn.

"C'mon," Winn supposedly said to DeVernai. "If Tom was going to have an affair, who do you think he would have one with, Carmen or me?"

DeVernai claimed Winn told a woman (not Chenal) who liked Horne, "I'm the new girlfriend; you're the crabby old woman."

When I asked Winn about such remarks for this article — specifically the comment about "an affair" — she conceded it sounded like something she might say.

"I could've said it kiddingly," she said. "But I don't remember saying that at all."

Winn, who's married to a retired Boeing executive, possesses a ribald sense of humor.

Like her response when I asked her about DeVernai's claim that a woman (not Chenal) offered to "arm wrestle" Winn for Horne's attention.

"I think we should do a big mud-wrestling thing," she cracked to me. "I'd be more than happy to take Carmen on."

Regarding rumors of an affair with her and Horne, Winn said that "would never happen," even if "Tom and I were the last man and woman on Earth."

When I first heard rumors of a Chenal-Horne affair in 2011, I asked Winn about them. She told me she had no knowledge of any such liaison.

Because people were aware that we knew each other, and because there was apparent hostility between the blonde in the office (Winn) and the brunette (Chenal), all roads in Hinchey's probe led back to Winn.

Even Horne suspected Winn, but he wouldn't allow Hinchey to question her. It seemed to many that Winn was protected, or "bulletproof" (DeVernai's word).

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50 comments
azmfairall
azmfairall

Some of our Facebook Friends throughout the United States do not know the story about Arizona's bad Attorney General Tom Horne. Here is the best newspaper article I found that details why Tom Horne will never be the Arizona Governor in in the NEW TIMES. Tom Horne is also a Felon because is barred from the stock selling industry by the SEC for fraud in his investment company in the 1970's.

We have filed SELECTIVE PROSECUTION CHARGES against Tom Horne with the FBI and Department of Justice since he protects his friends. The senior living facility, Sun Grove Resort Village (SGRV), which we had trouble with and hired Tom Horne's friend Scott E. Williams to represent the facility. Scott E. Williams was hired in 2004 by the Maricopa Board of Supervisors to represent Maricopa Politicians, Officials, and Judges on election Matters. Williams is very "PROTECTED" because court paperwork disappears, he gets court/legal favors, and is allowed to break the law. The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors ignore all our communications about their mistakes concerning Scott E. Williams, former disgraced Judge Melanie Deforest, and Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne.

Our evidence against Tom Horne is the ignoring of signed false advertising Internet Contracts signed by SGRV's Scott Green misrepresenting SGRV as a licensed senior living facility (which have Scott E. Williams' "Bates" stamp on them which shows he is aware of the scam). We also have documentation that SGRV's impostor nurse, Claudia Marquez, misrepresents herself as a nurse and even illegally obtains confidential medical information on SGRV residents.

The FBI, IC3 (Internet Crime Investigations), and the Department of Justice are investigating our complaints against Scott Green, SGRV, Scott E. Williams, and Tom Horne.

It is time for Tom Horne to be fired!

comrade
comrade

Which way did they go George?

Dontbelieveit
Dontbelieveit

That Chenal.......I wouldn't be caught DEAD at a dog fight with her ....even if she was the main event ! woof woof .what a dog!

ConcernedCitizenAZ
ConcernedCitizenAZ topcommenter

http://www.thestate.com/2012/11/27/2534377/attorney-general-wants-lawmakers.html#.UMU6VKVwYqY

Tuesday, Nov. 27, 2012

Attorney general wants lawmakers to sign off on public corruption unit

By ANDREW SHAIN - ashain@thestate.com

"S.C. Attorney General Alan Wilson said he is working with legislators to introduce and pass a law formalizing a new group to investigate public corruption.The Public Integrity Unit includes the S.C. Attorney General’s office, SLED, S.C. Ethics Commission, S.C. Department of Revenue and state Inspector General. Members of the unit have met three times to organize but has not started actively pursuing cases.“It gives five agencies cover should they have to investigate a very powerful policymaker or lawmaker,” Wilson said. “I want to take the politics out of it. I want to make sure everyone is held accountable equally.”

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2012/11/27/2534377/attorney-general-wants-lawmakers.html#storylink=cpy

Bort-LongYear
Bort-LongYear

Very good article Mr. Lemons.  Tom Horne is a sleazy character for sure.  Why is no one investigating Winn.  Apparently she can run a personal business while on the States dime.  Wish I could go to work, get paid for working on my private business--Now I call that Double Dipping.  The New Times should demand an accounting of Winn's weekly time accounting.  She should be required to pay the State back hour for hour her public salary for the time she spent selling Horne's real estate investment.  Theft is Theft; I don't care if Horne told her she could double dip it.  

danzigsdaddy
danzigsdaddy topcommenter

if this Carmen Chenal is what Horne-dog is tapping.......i bet he's made a pass at "the pickled pig" Brewski-Brewer. sea hags seem to be his preference

Anon
Anon

Nice article Lemons, one of the better investigative pieces.  It's a shame the Republic doesn't have articles this in depth.  Keep up the good work.  You've come a long way from food reviews, although I miss those too.

bobunf
bobunf

"AG  Horne . . . recruited a group of persons to blog in support of Horne and Chenal and question . . . the article."  Presumably on state time using state facilities.  

Shades of Sheriff Arpaio's IDS *Internet Disinformation Squad."  

Jesse Adams
Jesse Adams

Fuck him. He sued my high school which is probably one of the poorest financially in the state

ekalvarez
ekalvarez

that poor women,man she should slap her daddy face for having SEX with her mama

David Howard
David Howard

Hopefully!! He's against the will of the people. He's made that very clear. Whether he's guilty or not, he does not represent what "the people" ask for...

ExpertShot
ExpertShot topcommenter

Mr. Lemons writes: "Winn maintains thatshe was assisting Horne with the sale of his personal property atSeventh Avenue and McDowell Road."  Is that "personal" property or should it be "personal real property"?  Personal Property is considered items like a car or bed or other movable property.  Real Property is real estate.  I would like to know which property it was at 7th Ave and McDowell.  It would be really ironic if it was the land where the Bert Easly's Fun Shop was located!

glenn.gimbut
glenn.gimbut

I am wondering about reverse sexual discrimination claims, lets face it, competant male attorneys do not stand a chance for promotion unless Horne becomes at least bi-sexual. 

mikefrombisbee
mikefrombisbee

So we have an Attorney general who has arranged for two sinecures for his goomah so she could be with him to serve him up a special lunch while he served as state superintendent of public instruction (or was that PUBIC instruction) and as attorney general...and a current superintendent of public instruction who never spent a day as a student in AZ public school (Huppenthal was a parochial school student all the way). What the fuck is wrong with AZ voters who selected these slime balls for public service? And what the fuck is wrong with most of the media,  who can't be bothered to look beyond inane talking points.

mikefrombisbee
mikefrombisbee

The state bar investigation may do it. Or at least make him look like the pathetic, ethically-challenged, pussy-chasing old fool that he is. That will not be good for what is left of his political career.

Looks like Carthage may destroy YOU, Cato!

dennis20
dennis20 topcommenter

So Horne is 67 and Chenal is 58? I'm just hoping that no secret sex video leaks out. Arizona simply isn't ready to see that.  

ReggieVV
ReggieVV

Can you imagine if Hornedog was still a Democrat, Andy Tobin would already be filing an impeachment resolution, Andy Biggs would be ready to vote on it, and Doris Goodale would lead the impeachment charge, ironic in the heroin smuggling world. Hornedog, Resign now! You will never be governor, or, wait a minute, the stupider the Republican in Arizona, the more likely they are to be elected.

MrDuke
MrDuke

Damn that Chanel chic is fucked up looking! If you're going to get caught by the FBI, at least make sure she's hot! Don't they teach this in the Good Ole Boys hand book???

shadeaux14
shadeaux14 topcommenter

In any other state, this would disqualify him to be governor but we're in Arizona where it will probably make him the front running republicon.

Bunch of dumb fucks.

6speed
6speed

I don't know who on earth votes these people into office. The main point I got from the article was that Horne and Chenal are naturalized US Citizens and as such, along with Arnold Schwarzenegger cannot become President of the United States. I will sleep better tonight because of this.

ibcingutoo
ibcingutoo

Why the FUCK would ANY woman want to have sex with this UGLY, PATHETIC, WORTHLESS OLD COOT?

robert_graham
robert_graham topcommenter

Oh I see num nuts is back. I'm talking about the jackass Stephen Lemons. I thought maybe he had croaked since he hasn't been around in a week.

ConcernedCitizenAZ
ConcernedCitizenAZ topcommenter

@Sedonasherpa Trail to a Hedge Fund, From a Cluster of Cases - NYTimes.comhttp://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/05/trail-to-a-hedge-fund-from-a-cluster-of-cases/?hp"In April 2009, an F.B.I. agent visited the Silicon Valley home of Richard Choo-Beng Lee, a hedge fund manager with deep contacts inside technology companies. The government, the agent said, had overwhelming proof that Mr. Lee had engaged in insider trading. Within weeks, Mr. Lee confessed and began cooperating.A year and a half later, in the parking lot of a New England prep school, the same agent approached Noah Freeman, a Harvard-educated money manager turned teacher. After the agent played a secretly recorded conversation of Mr. Freeman swapping illegal tips, Mr. Freeman admitted to crimes and started assisting the authorities.Last winter, another agent confronted Mathew Martoma, a pharmaceutical-industry analyst, at his 8,000-square-foot Florida mansion. As they stood on the front lawn, with Mr. Martoma’s wife and children inside, the agent told him that they had evidence that he had broken the law."

Vintage
Vintage

@ExpertShot It was the Historic District Antique Mall right on the corner of 7th Ave & Mcdowell. I know because I had a dealer space there. If I'm not mistaken we were told it was sold in August of 2010 and were out of there before October. 

ExpertShot
ExpertShot topcommenter

@mikefrombisbee Symington had worse baggage and he was elected governor here.  His head honcho, Jay Heiler, was appointed to the Board of Regents! Of course there was the porn-meister political kingmaker of John McCain, Charles Keating and their butt boy Dennis DeConcinin.  Of course who could forget the impeachment of Evan Mecham, or the Arizona voters' rejection of a state-paid Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.  This State has long been where the young ones go to watch Political Circus at its best.  In a state like Arizona, this scandal is a pre-requisite to being elected Governor!  Just look at our present GOvernor, how did she get away with having the State pay for the upkeep on her murdering son while she's in the Governors Mansion with a  six figure salary?  If my kids were being taken care of by the government, you KNOW my wages would be getting garnished for repayment of the support.  It's all so unfair it's just mind boggleing

.

mikefrombisbee
mikefrombisbee

@ibcingutoo A job that pays over $100,000/year might be a reason. Or the fact that he took her seriously. Who knows why people make stupid choices. In her case it has certainly paid off. He has been her protector and advocate for years. How well would she have done without his support?

Dogbiter
Dogbiter

Retard, it's numb nuts! Beyond that, go fuck yourself. We all know that your IQ is far south of Jan Brewer's. 

Bort-LongYear
Bort-LongYear

@JoeArpaioFan Apparently you condone criminal activity--so who's the jackass?  You actually think spending state funds to find out who is leaking "criminal and debased moral turpitude" information to the media is a good use of public funds; read mine and your tax dollars?  It is clear Horne has control issues.  As well, Horne authorized one of his amorous interests to work at her 100k a year job and while on STATE TIME she was allowed to work at her real estate business. Sure doesn't get any better than that.  Instead of hating on Lemons--you should be thanking him for alerting an ignorant electorate about the true nature of this ass-clown.  

david_saint01
david_saint01 topcommenter

@JoeArpaioFan im also sure your dumbass doesnt realize he has unqualified staff that are getting paid top salary for doing nothing more than spying on others in the office. and yes, i know that for fact. I also know he is hiding what they are actually getting paid from the public (ask Matthew)...but i guess cause hes a Republican, in your eyes he is infallible though..lol like i said, you're a dumbass. 

david_saint01
david_saint01 topcommenter

@JoeArpaioFan lol sure, an elected official breaking the law isnt a big deal...you do realize you contradict yourself daily dont you dumbass? 

loosecannonsbluesban
loosecannonsbluesban

@Vintage @ExpertShot So that's on the NorthEast Corner of 7th Ave. and McDowell.  Isn't that the place where the homeless guy got shot by the owner of the business there?  I've posted the article here.  No mention of Horne in the article - maybe he didn't own it then?  A good reporter might have found that information out.  I'm guessing the murderer had personal or political ties with Horne!  Please, New Times Editor - assign a reporter to check out any connections to this story!

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/01/post_25.php

mikefrombisbee
mikefrombisbee

@ExpertShot @mikefrombisbee It goes back a long, long ways, to the years right after WWII when the boom started and there was plenty money to be made. Fraud, embezzlement and political chicanery have been a standard for state politics for generations. Read The Arizona Project by the Investigative Reporters and Editors and then read Don Bolles - An Investigation Into His Murder. 

ExpertShot
ExpertShot topcommenter

@mikefrombisbee @ibcingutoo Please note that Carmen has had an affair with Thomas Horne for over 30 years - he was better looking back then! And so was she!

david_saint01
david_saint01 topcommenter

@Dogbiter lol dont mind the troll, he has no life and nothing better to do. 

fairymagic13
fairymagic13

@Bort-LongYear @JoeArpaioFan I keep telling you JAF is an employee of Stephen Lemons of New Times (or Stephen himself) whose job it is to stir up comments on the stories Mr. Lemons posts.  No one can be as superficial or obtuse as JAF is - it's obviously a plant.  DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

Vintage
Vintage

@loosecannonsbluesban @Vintage @ExpertShot He owned the building at the time but the antique mall was renting the space. After the shooting he took over running the mall. it's also the same building where he had his campaign head quarters 

loosecannonsbluesban
loosecannonsbluesban

@mikefrombisbee @ExpertShot I've worked for attorneys who lived during that time (in fact I work for one now).  The business world, including attorneys at that time 1940s to 1950s in Phoenix was caught up in a huge sex scandal.  Problably 60% of the business people here (remember this was before air conditioning) would send their families to stay in Flagstaff or other cooler climates, while they would stay here and "work" through the summer.  Almost all of them had mistresses - the Trunk Murder series by Jana Bamersbach had referred to this scandal in Phoenix - and these women were kept in hotels or in some cases the slave houses almost every home in Phoenix had at the time (look in the early, pre-civil rights Property Deeds and you'll see restrictive covenants which mention these properties, which specifically prohibited minorities from various neighborhoods unless they lived in the "Slave quarters".  This so-called conservative state is anything but! 

 
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